00:00:01.020 Hello and welcome to MilMac Musings, where Allison Miller and Gerard MacLellan reveal the intersection between God and science for living wholeheartedly. Now on to the podcast. Welcome to MilMac Musings. We're here today, and this is my partner, Allison, myself, Gerard. And we want to continue on with sexual abuse, as we mentioned in the last episode. For particular research, we both read a story last night.

00:00:32.280 We'd like to articulate some of the facts to you. And it was about a powerful businessman who was very wealthy. And it was about his children. And the fact of the matter was there was some sexual abuse that was involved in it. And as the story goes, there are a couple of half-brothers and sisters, I should say one sister.

00:00:59.280 And as she was moving forward, she did have an incident where she was raped and how that began. Would you like to go forward with it or want me to continue with this story? Yeah. Well, she was raped by her half-brother. She had no idea that was going to happen to her. She was just doing something nice for him at the request of her father.

00:01:23.340 And she went in to offer him what she had baked for him, and he immediately - he pretended to be sick is what he did. And so she was taking him something to feel better. And he immediately you know threw that aside and began attacking her.

00:01:46.920 He had, I guess, for a long time watched her, seen her, thought of her beauty, and developed a strong sense of, I mean, lust. Right. That's exactly what it was-lust, right? Yeah. And so he did rape her. And after he raped her, and during the time that he was raping her, she was pleading with him not to do that.

00:02:16.560 And she was also telling him, "Hey, if you go to my dad and talk to him, I'm sure he'll say, "We can get married, but please don't do this." And he did it anyway. He asserted his will for what she wanted. Yes, he did. He forced her to do that. And then the sadder part, of course, that is very sad and it's very violent and invasive to this young 15-year-old girl.

00:02:48.840 Yeah But even more so was that after he raped her, he basically just sent her away and told her he wanted nothing more to do with her. Her brother, her other brother, had actually organized this happening. He's the one that told the half-brother, "Hey, this is how you do this. You know Get her in there and do this this way." And you know I'm not laughing at the situation.

00:03:21.780 It is heartbreaking. To me, it's very prevalent of what goes on in our culture quite often. You know That's the truth, but the thing is, as you hear it and listen to it, it's shocking. So sometimes I do that. I laugh in like a nervous, shocking way. Like, "Are you really?" Yeah. You know? Yeah. But do you want to continue on or do you want to You can interject anytime. Yeah.

00:03:48.600 One of the other things too is that you know as you mentioned, right after it happened, there was a hatred that came into his heart. Yes. And he sent her away directly. And she was pleading with him saying, "If you do this, this it's even going to be worse than the rape that had just taken place." And he didn't care. And that's the sad part about abusers or sexual people who perpetrate the sexual abuse on others and their self-will on others.

00:04:19.980 It's just an overwhelming it's overwhelming on their emotions as they move forward because they are just doing exactly what they want. They have no care about anybody else. And the other thing that's important about that is they don't believe other people will believe them. Meaning like the perpetrator will say to the victim, "Nobody's going to believe me." And that's what he was doing. He sent her away. And he did it in a way that looked like the other people would say it was something happening there and it must have been her fault.

00:04:51.120 And it's such a sad state of affairs as to what that happens in today's culture and society. And the turmoil and brokenness and the sadness of the situation, she never overcame it. She lived that way because she never had anybody to help her with the safety aspect. Never had anybody to help her with just being secure. And we've talked about this so much in our podcast is the believing aspect.

00:05:21.000 Nobody believed her and nobody was understanding of her. And one of her other brothers who did finally hear about it, he obviously became very angry. But his way of handling was, "Don't say anything." Yeah, just don't talk about it. Don't tell anyone about it. It's over. It's done. Move on in your life. And just don't even have any feelings about it. Just move on. Right. It's almost like she was just invisible. Nobody cared about her.

00:05:50.220 It was all about what's this going to look like for our family. Yeah It's not about what just happened to you. How can we help you? Yeah. And you said you know her father was a very wealthy man. He had a successful business. And when he found out, he really did not do anything. He basically cared more about his own reputation and what people would think about him versus protecting his daughter or trying to take initiative to do something to help her to heal from what had happened.

00:06:23.880 That's the shocking aspect of it all. Just as I said before, how invisible she was and her feelings and her brokenness and everything she was going through, all those emotions of it. And she was basically outcast. She was just an outcast. Imagine going to tell your father this, and you're expecting somebody who's important and you've looked up to and who is wealthy and who has a lot of power, you would think that he would be the one to help you, being your father.

00:06:57.600 Yeah But it didn't happen. It was the saddest part of the story. And again, one of the things that we need to focus on are the emotions of what she was going through. The story itself had an overview of the entire family structure, but really you have to dive deep into what she was going through in every step of the way. Right.

00:07:22.200 You know She was also wrestling with the fact that because nobody believed her, because nobody had come to her aid, because they were telling her to move on, that there would be no consequences at all for this young man who raped her. And that's a really hard thing to deal with when you have gone through something like that, to feel that you are all alone and that nobody cares.

00:07:55.560 You basically become an outcast. That's how you feel. You feel lonely. You feel like an outcast, and you feel like there's no hope for your future. I was just thinking the same thing. No hope. And there wasn't any hope for her yeah because there wasn't anybody there to help her through that. And so we're bringing this story together. We're going through it a little deeper, but just so you can understand that that is very real. And as you're going through it, and some of the people who have gone through it, the perpetrator says, again, nobody's going to believe you.

00:08:27.840 They're only going to believe me. And one example within one of the other things we were reading was about the people who, for example, the perpetrator would say, "I know if you're going to tell somebody." So they're making all of these conditions on the person, and they're just even just going deeper into abuse. Yeah And not only did they do the sexual abuse, now they're doing the verbal abuse of it all. And you know that creates more confusion.

00:08:58.260 And fear. That's great. That's so true. The fear is just so great. Yeah And you know I just feel that from a perspective of counseling, we have to be the active listeners who believe the stories that they tell. And a lot of people in the church don't do it. We were just talking about a story where someone in the church didn't believe that person. Right.

00:09:22.200 But the counselor was really understood the other person and then went to their you know went to them and took them in for counseling, which is a great thing because that really helps the person understand that somebody's there who believes me. Validated what happened on her. Right. And that's the glimmer of hope you need as you move forward with what you're dealing with. And some of the other issues that were part of that story is that she had moved in with one of her half-brothers.

00:09:53.820 And he didn't like what happened to the other brother, but her feelings were set aside because of the family dynamic. What's it going to do to our families? We've mentioned before. Ultimately, there was some acts of violence there. But again, it never helped that particular person. Well, when you think about the family dynamic of it and her going to her father, her father not doing anything, that was supposed to be a safe place for her.

00:10:25.080 And it actually ended up being a very dangerous place for her. And so as a part of the whole process, her voice was silenced because she couldn't talk about it. She couldn't express anything about it and was supposed to move on. And so she felt very helpless. She felt helpless during the moment of what was happening to her, and then she felt very helpless after what happened because of the sequence of events that took place that nobody wanted to come to her aid and be there for her.

00:11:02.280 It just didn't matter what she wanted. Right. And that's the sadness and the brokenheartedness. And it's just it plays in your heart. And this type of story happens over and over again in different varying ways. But when you're going through it, we want you to know that we're here for you. And we understand from a perspective of active listening. And Allison has some things that she has shared.

00:11:29.400 And you know when you're a part of a situation where you're confused, your emotions are just all over the place. You're not sure who to trust. You're not sure what happened. And even sometimes you may feel that nobody's ever going to believe you, or did that really happen like we were talking yesterday? Did that really question yourself? Right.

00:11:50.880 And then one of the other things that really kind of played through the story as well was the fact that well, it was something that was added a bit later, but it was something where you may have gone through it, but you haven't dealt with it, but if somebody else goes through it, you get angry for what they've gone through. So we say this because the healing has to take place within you. And we're here to help you understand that.

00:12:17.940 And you know one of the other things that we'd like to kind of bring into this would be this story actually is a biblical story. And it's a story about is it Tamar? Is that how you've been known? Tamar. Tamar, excuse me. David's daughter. Yeah. David's daughter. And Tamar was his daughter, and Amnon was his stepson. They had the same father but different mother.

00:12:45.900 And it was actually Amnon who did that to her. So this is a story that's written in the Bible. It is an example of what we see of abuse through the Bible and through God's Word. And we understand through this that God hates this, that it's evil. But he put it in there for a reason. Yes.

00:13:15.000 You know Go ahead. For us to connect to. Absolutely. For us to understand that you know there are things that happen to us in our lives, but that he knows that. He sees that. And you know if we think about on a longer term, and I don't really know if you want to go there yet, but just to think about Jesus as our Savior and Redeemer, he understands our pain. He does.

00:13:44.940 He took all of that pain on himself at his crucifixion, not to mention all the pain that he went through prior. And I think we talked a little bit about that yesterday. But just when you read a story in the Bible like that, and if something has happened to you like that, you connect with that. And you're like, "Wow, you know God wrote about this in the Bible.

00:14:08.460 We've got this to refer to, to see Him, to understand Him." And so it helps us understand that we are known by Him. Right. And one quick note too, if you understand in the Bible at that particular time of King David, they were under the law. And one of the things about the law at that time was if the person who performed that act was caught, they were supposed to be put to death.

00:14:43.860 So not only was he not put to death, David, King David, at the time, their father, just let it go. Yeah And there was no ramifications for the act of what happened. So there's so many people who are broken, who don't understand truly who God is. And what I mean by that is how God actually sees things. And in the brokenness within ourselves, we can make terrible decisions. And we could see what happened there.

00:15:10.020 And again, we brought that out into this story because we keep bringing up the fact that it's Jesus who helps us get through things, and it's so true. But as we just mentioned a minute ago, when we see a story written in the Bible that is from God, that is just ordained by Him to show us that He sees all like she was saying, and His heart is with us. And I think that's so important because it's a long journey.

00:15:40.740 If you're the person that's gone through this or you're the caregiver that helping the person get through this, for them to come to really understand that He's with you every second of your journey, and it's not easy. I don't know if you want to go into a little bit about some of the things about how difficult it is to speak about it. Yeah, I think it is. It is. I mean, but it's part of the healing journey.

00:16:07.560 You know When you first try to tell your story, I mean, you've been so silenced and you've been told that it's not true, possibly, or that it's a bunch of lies. And so it's really hard to really begin to express something when you've been so silenced about it. But the thing about telling your story is there's a way to do it, and it's a process of doing it.

00:16:33.600 And it's not that you have to blurt everything out all at one time, but what it actually does is begin to heal you by you telling your story and really understanding what happened, what happened to you, and why it happened to you, and not that you will fully ever understand all of that. You begin to heal from that, and you begin to see things from a newer understanding.

00:17:04.980 And you begin to do things through speaking, first of all. You're speaking, and you've been silenced. So now you're speaking your story, and you're actually creating something new in your life that you haven't done before. So as you begin to do that, really, what you're doing is creating renewal in your life.

00:17:29.940 And not only is our story told just like this story in the Bible, when we tell our story, how that helped us, when we tell our story, other people connect with that, and it helps them to heal as well. One of the things that just to go a bit further, is when you're able to come to that place of healing, and again, it is a process, and it's not easy, but you can do it.

00:17:58.800 And I think once you start taking the baby steps to move forward, the process just becomes a bit easier in a way that you can see. You're putting things on paper, you're speaking it out. But other people, when you get to the other side of healing or getting close to the healing part of your journey, you, in turn, will want to help other people as well.

00:18:21.720 And again, we said that yesterday, it's discipleship of knowing the hurts, knowing the confusion, knowing the unprocessed emotions, knowing the fact that you're trying to forget it, and it's unfortunately not the way that it never helps for future relationships, or even inside yourself, the turmoil that you're going through is very difficult. And again, the silence of it all. You're internally going through this. And that's a very difficult thing. And the silence you can even do it to yourself.

00:18:51.960 But again, it's not going to help because it can come out at any time in any given situation. What I mean by that is your emotions can come out in a way that maybe other people don't quite understand what's going on. And the healing is not there. So that's why these steps are important, or at least the initial steps are important from the beginning of healing. They are. And you know as a part of the healing process, as you're telling your story, writing your story, learning about what's really happening in your life as a result of what's happened in your life, okay?

00:19:22.380 So there are things that happen in our present that are from our past. And so I mean, they have names, they're triggers, and flashbacks. But we begin to understand and see what those are about in our lives. We get this new perspective of why just the deep brokenness of people, period. And that this has come from a very evil place.

00:19:51.359 And so we're able to kind of navigate through and have a clearer understanding, but also to really, I guess, I would say put into practice new ways of doing things of managing I call it managing our emotions. It's really more of just learning what emotions are coming up and learning how to navigate through those emotions from a healthier perspective because we all have, at some level, people have had trauma in their lives.

00:20:28.440 I think it said that like 90% of It's almost everybody. People have. So some is more complex than others. But can you imagine? I mean, this story of Tamar, if this has happened to her over and over and over again throughout her life, and it may not be exactly the same, but the abuse, whether it's sexual, whether it's verbal, whether it's emotional, spiritual, whatever.

00:20:57.000 Now, this woman now lives with extreme complex trauma. And the way that she makes decisions in her life and the way that she feels about herself, the way that she views herself, the way she views God, other relationships. You know It's distorted. And so to go through what we were talking about, learning to tell your story and help to navigate through those emotions is so powerful for you.

00:21:30.720 I'm telling you, I mean, you don't even realize how strong you are to be able to do this. It takes great strength. It does. And then people who do do that, you know just how can I say it? I guess it would be just the ability to see the strength of people who do that. And to do that, you really are we would consider heroes yeah that do that to help yourself.

00:22:03.000 Because again, I just want to interject here that there is intelligent evil out there. And these are acts that are perpetrated by people who are evil. And when I say that with evil, there's intelligent evil behind that. There's a spiritual realm behind that. And that's important because as you're bringing this out into the light, that's what helps because the light comes in, and Jesus is the light. And He works through us.

00:22:33.000 But once you bring it to the light, it's such a great relief. And it's really a beginning process that evil has nothing. They can't. They run away from it because it's out. And so the turmoil and everything you're going through when you keep it inside is coming out. And again, it's a process, but it's the light at the end of the tunnel, truly, truly the light. No pun intended. I love gardening. And so I think about plants, okay?

00:23:00.359 And if you put a plant in a dark room, I mean, plants need light to grow. So if you put a plant in a dark room and never take care of it, it's not going to grow. But when the light comes in and you begin to nurture your plant, and you begin to fertilize, if you will, which is what we're doing as we go through these processes, then you begin to grow and you begin to see how as the light comes in, the darkness moves away because darkness cannot exist with light.

00:23:41.100 That is so true. I love the analogy, too, about the plant or flowers or whether in a dark room. Yeah And again, without light, there's really just no hope. And once you get those unprocessed emotions coming about, and again, it's not easy. And nobody's saying it's easy at all. But I just want to have a quote here from Dr. Diane Langberg's book here, On The Threshold of Hope, opening a door to healing for survivors.

00:24:13.020 "Let your God-given voice join the voices of those who know the experience of oppression, violence, and abuse. It is a frightening step, I know. But as you take it, God will meet you there. He is the Redeemer, and He will bring you out." So true. It is. It is. And again, we want to bring the Biblical aspect in here. And I think we're trying to project that from that story. And it really is a story that's truly written in the Bible, which is the truth.

00:24:42.840 It's the absolute truth. And you know our excitement for you as a person who is viewing us to hopefully, if you can, start to initiate what we're talking about, start to open up, start to even journal it to write it down. And again, it gets outside. And I'm just going to take a quick from my perspective, there was an incredible book that I read not too long ago, a number of years ago.

00:25:13.800 And the name of the book, I believe, is Desperate for Love, is it? Yes. And it's written by this incredible author, Alison Miller. And so it was a journey that part of a journey that we have talked about a number of times that truly helped me to get inside what was bottled up inside out. I mean, I couldn't put it down. So again, what I did was I started to write my story.

00:25:40.560 And the relief of what happened from all the adverse childhood experiences and everything from the defense mechanisms built from a child's perspective to the relationships they had as an adult and moving forward and learning. But when I read that book, I opened up and did that. So I'm talking about journaling, putting down my thoughts, seeing how my life played out. And again, we've always said this. There's no guilt or combination or blaming somebody.

00:26:10.800 It's about just putting it down and seeing the steps that you've gone forward. And then you can see why this may have happened or the unprocessed emotions that were part of it. But it's a start. And when I did that, it was almost like a boulder off my shoulders because I could just start to see and bring it out into the light. And again, from a biblical perspective, which we feel is a very important part of the journey with the counseling and the ministry here is to the fact that Jesus is the one who comes in and heals you and comes right alongside the journey.

00:26:45.420 And He's right with you. And again, He'll meet you exactly where you are. Yeah, He does. Thank you for mentioning my book. And that is the reason that I wrote it was so that other people could connect and understand that, number one, there is hope, no matter what you've been through. There's hope, and it's through Christ. And then there is a process of healing. And you know He is our great God, and He is our Redeemer.

00:27:14.580 And He is the one that comes into our hearts and lives and gives us the strength and the wherewithal to be able to take the steps that we need to take to do this. And it is a strength that you have through him. And I can tell you right now, I never could have done it without that. But I'm glad that I did because it has touched many people's lives.

00:27:41.460 And like Gerard shared, just opening up things in him that he had never shared before. Never with anyone. So it allowed me to be vulnerable. Yeah And once I was vulnerable, I can tell the world about what happened because it's out. And I want to help other people. I want to have the #MeToo aspect. What I mean by that is if somebody hears my story, they're going to say, you know, some people may say, "Oh my gosh, me too." And that's what it's all about.

00:28:12.180 Yeah. And one thing I want to mention too, we spoke about this yesterday was the fact of how frightened you were to begin the process of the book and to write it down, yeah to put your thoughts out there. Do you want to get on that? It was just very scary. I mean, when you're not believed already and when you have no idea how people are going to respond to what you've written, it's a scary thing to do that.

00:28:39.960 And you don't know what people are going to think or what people are going to say. And it has to come I think you have to get to that place where, for me, it was important for me not to really even care what somebody else thought. I mean, there was a journey of hardship in that. There were battles with that. There were people that came against me and did not like that I was doing it. But I knew that it was the truth. I knew what had happened to me.

00:29:10.500 I knew that it could help other people. And I knew that through Christ I had received the power to be healed. And so I knew that I wanted that for other people. And I know how many people are out there going through the same things. And so it is scary. I don't want to tell you it's not. I mean, and I think if you know that already, you can embrace that and understand that it's going to be that way.

00:29:39.600 But I just want you to know that God is with you and He will lead you. And you know just having a loving, safe community of people around you to help you in that is probably one of the best things that you can have. Right. And we are more than willing to walk that journey with you as well. Yes, we are. And we're just so happy that you've taken the time to view the podcast and listen to our stories, because we truly that's our heart.

00:30:11.940 And that's what God does. Once you bring things to the light, He'll help you bring everything together for the greater good. Yes. You know? And it's just an amazing For His glory. For his glory. And that's just the most wonderful thing. He loves us so much. And again, that's really, truly part of the process to be healed, whole, and healthy. Yes, it is. Do you have anything else you'd like to add? Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to us.

00:30:42.840 Yeah We truly appreciate that because we know you could be listening to other podcasts and so forth, but we're so happy that you have decided to join us. And we just hope that you continue. And if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. And if you have any other thoughts about any other type of questions you have, or shows that you'd like us to do, or information we'd like to expound that you'd like us to expound, and we certainly will be more than willing to do that.

00:31:15.000 So we thank you again. And we just want to say thank you, and have a wonderfully blessed day. And we'll see you on the other side. God bless you.