00:00:01.020 Hello and welcome to MILMAC Musings, where Allison Miller and Gerard MacLellan reveal the intersection between God and science for living wholeheartedly. Now on to the podcast. Hi everyone, it's Allison and Gerard again. And as we mentioned, we were going to come back very quickly to continue. One thing I'd like to do is also, we are in ministry to help for victims of abuse and other things that trauma-based.

00:00:33.120 But we're also, from a Biblical perspective, we want to bring kind of an overview of evil and how it's really perpetrated the world. And the reason we're doing that is because a lot of people, particularly and some Christians as well, a lot of Christians, they truly, and again, it's not that we know it all. We've just learned and we understand this particular aspect of it. Evil has taken place more than just in really Genesis 3, the fall of Adam and Eve.

00:01:06.060 That's you know for their sin. It's a matter of other things as well. There is a spiritual realm out there. And as true Christian believers, we do believe that. And it's actually a fact. And it's in the Bible. And the Bible is absolute truth. It's not a science book, per se, and it never was meant to be that way. It's a theological book and it's God's Word for us. Written in the context of the people at that time, but it's written for us too.

00:01:34.260 So getting back to what I was saying, Genesis 3 with the fall of Adam and Eve. And then you also have in Genesis 6 Sons of God. A lot of people think that that would be the Israel, Israel. No, it's not. What it is, it's in the spiritual. God has a spiritual family and a family here in a natural world too, the humans. And they're all meant to, at some point when we go to the other side, to be altogether.

00:02:03.540 It's his family. So getting back to Genesis 6, it's written in the Scriptures that there were sons of God who came into women and coming into means the sexual act of knowing your spouse or significant other. And so they brought in evil. They were called the Nephilim.

00:02:29.160 And this may be relatively new to some people, but the Nephilim came in here and they brought evilness that was beyond anything of what Adam and Eve did. So they truly perpetrated evil beyond measure in this world. And then you also have the Tower of Babel, which is in Genesis 11.

00:02:49.140 And at that point, God dispersed the nations to kind of divorce the nations because of the evil that was just so prevalent throughout the world that he created the 70 nations. And the 70 nations had boundaries. And so the sons of God were actually put in charge of this. However, they were evil.

00:03:17.940 And then they just abused their people within their nations. And so finally, in Psalm 82, he comes about where God actually within divine counsel realm. That's another area where God actually tells them that these evil spirits, these evil sons of God, again, small S of God are going to die like men. And that's what we're dealing with right now. We're dealing with that evil.

00:03:47.940 But Christ came and He defeated them. But we have a choice to either believe in Christ or not. And if we don't believe it, then they have an inroad into our lives. And that creates such havoc for us. So we're bringing that into our conversation because that's truly evil. And a lot of things that we're dealing with are evil from another realm of working through people. And so if you don't mind, would you mind just going forth? Or do you have anything else?

00:04:16.020 Yeah, yeah, I want to share just a little bit about that. Evil is real and you may or may not believe it. We have said that we have experienced certain things. Prior to really even understanding what this was, I was able to see into the spiritual realm and knew because there was evil present in my life, in my home, and I was able to see that without even any understanding of it, that God gave me a way to see that.

00:04:52.020 And he actually fought for me. And that is why now I want to read to you from the scripture. And this is from Michael Heiser's book. It is, yes. The warrior Messiah empowers his spiritual warriors. Old Testament Holy War theology is the backdrop for what is perhaps the most well-known passage on spiritual warfare in the New Testament.

00:05:25.200 In Ephesians 6:11 through 12, Paul tells believers, " Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

00:05:58.530 " The details of the armor that follow in Ephesians 6:13 through 20 should be read within the scope of the real message. The spirit of Yahweh, the divine warrior of Israel, will fight for you. In true Holy War ideology, the real power is not found in human participants, but in the power of Jesus, our divine warrior king.

00:06:31.500 And would you like for me to read Ephesians 6? Yeah, if you want to leave me, you just read that part. Yeah, 13 through 13 through 20. Okay. Thank you. All right. Because of this, take up the full armor of God in order that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything to stand.

00:06:52.500 Stand, therefore, girding your waist with truth and putting on the breastplate of righteousness and binding shoes under your feet with a preparation of the good news of peace in everything taking up the shield of faith with which you are able to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one and receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

00:07:24.300 And that's the truth. So we're bringing this up too. We're going to continue on with our show right now, but also just one quick note. So when complex people going through complex trauma, sometimes evilness comes, it's all perpetrated by evilness. And so they, because they're suffering such great you know trauma, they're trying to disassociate or separate themselves and they're trying to go into another, they're grasping for another power to get themselves out of what they're going through.

00:07:56.940 But this is truly evil. And we wanted to bring that to the forefront of this conversation because again, we are a ministry that will help you with what you're going through. We wanted to give you a backdrop as to why all this is occurring. So we thank you for reading that. I appreciate it very much. And we would like to go further into first, we were talking about the common examples, and then we were talking about how it escalates the person who is the abuser perpetrator escalates control.

00:08:30.060 Now we're going to go into some examples about codependency. So all of this creates codependency. And one of the examples that I can use with the codependency for myself is the fact that they're trying to isolate your family. They're trying to isolate you from seeing others. So what they're trying to do is just drive a wedge between you and your supports people, your family, so you're dependent upon them. And that's scary. I've been through it and it's truly scary.

00:08:59.280 And you have to really dig deep to really help you out of that. So again, that support people that come alongside you, but it's very real and it's just it really is evil. And to try to control a person that much, to try to get you to be totally dependent on them as far as a co-dependent, just shows you the evilness that this person is going through. And they're going through it based on their own emotions and everything else that they're dealing with.

00:09:30.540 But again, for you, it's just the most unhealthy situation that you can be in. Do you have any examples you want to share? Yes, I would like to talk about control and communication. You know, you can be sitting down and trying to have a conversation with your spouse and you may share something that's very important to you. And the style of communication that comes back over you is just to tell you that you're wrong. That never happened.

00:10:00.000 You need to stop talking. They know more than you know and they basically shut you down. And it's also a form of disputing your feelings. When they do this, they're basically saying that you didn't. You don't feel the way that you're saying you feel. You're basically making it up. You're not feeling the even what you're seeing.

00:10:30.360 OK, they can take that and turn it around and tell you that's not it. And so this is where they start really gaining dependency on you because you start going, well, I mean, maybe they're right. Maybe I am, you know, not remembering correctly. Maybe I didn't say the right thing or maybe I don't really feel that or maybe I am wrong for feeling that way. I shouldn't do that. Those are two examples and another one would be interrupting.

00:11:01.440 I can think of an example in a relationship where, you know, maybe you are resting, you're sleeping on a sofa or in a chair. And rather than the person allowing you to have your arrest, they are in your face, yelling in your face. Saying, wake up or are you asleep?

00:11:29.520 Or, you know, instead of just respecting that, you're resting right now. No, these are examples that lead to the next level of codependency. And what we have said before that's very important is that you need that support group around you when you're going through it. And you also need to get the resources to understand what you should do in that given time, because you don't want to be in a situation where you're going to be further hurt. That's the key. And that's where you need the support group.

00:11:59.400 You need the right resources. You need the right connections and groups just to help you get through this, because believe it or not, there are real people out there who really want to help you. And praise God for that. That's just a blessing for us all. But as you get further into the co-dependency part of it, you lose your me. I keep telling you, you lose your mind will and emotions to the other person. And you are just going to live a life that you are not yourself.

00:12:30.180 You are the extension of the other person. And when you do that again, it creates an unhealthy physical torture really to your body because your body shouldn't be going through that. You shouldn't be hiding or burying your feelings because the other person's feelings overwhelming you. And then the confusion that you might be going through, because most people have, you know, a lot of people have a heart that they want to help the person, but they get dragged into this.

00:12:59.340 And when you're dragged into this, it's just a very dysfunctional way of having a relationship. So you truly, if you remain in that, you're not going to be yourself. You're not going to have areas that can be really healthy. When you're in an unhealthy relationship, really most aspects around you are unhealthy. That includes your health, your mental well-being, your physical well-being, your sleeping, anything that can help you get through these things is going to be effective.

00:13:30.660 And it's very sad. It's a true sad situation that two people really are one based on another person's control and really abuse. And it could be it could also be addiction too. Drug addiction, alcohol addiction, and anything else of that nature. And it's truly, we're bringing this out. I know it's sober what we're talking about, these points, but the point is from all of this, we want you to be aware of this, that this can happen.

00:14:01.320 And if you hear something, it might drag your mind saying, " I'm going through that, " or, " Maybe that's me, " or, " Maybe that could be me if I don't, you know, get the help that I need before going down this road. " And again, the other person's not going to do it. They're not going to help you. They're going to remain. You're not controlling abusive person in the relationship. They're going to remain that way. And again, you have to help yourself with this. And it's not easy, but we're bringing this to your attention because it's truly evil.

00:14:33.540 And that's a sad part of it all. And we need to live life. We're here to enjoy life. It's this part of vapor. Yeah. Yeah, one of the things we were talking about earlier related to this is that we do things that we don't actually realize that we're doing. We enable other people to continue this type of behavior in our lives. So you want to talk about that a little bit? Sure. Just how we do that? Absolutely.

00:15:01.800 Well, when you're in a relationship and you're going through these things, and like I mentioned, I lost my me, you're just so confused. And you are knowing that the other person is just wearing you down. I mean, wearing and wearing you down to the point that, again, it's an unhealthy relationship. But the other things that come about, for example, we mentioned at the last show, the isolation from your family, disparaging your family, trying to create that wedge so you are absolutely dependent upon that person.

00:15:37.020 And doing that, again, just makes for just a destructive relationship. And when you're not to you, you're the one that's, or me, rather, you're the one that's going to be suffering from that. And suffering from that is in so many different ways in a way that you are being isolated is devastating because you have no outlet, no one to talk to. And you don't know that you need to talk to somebody about it. And that's the sad part about codependency.

00:16:07.800 And when you're further developing that within a relationship from a controlling person, it doesn't get better unless you are the one to take the steps to help that yourself. First of all, you have to help yourself. So I just want to leave it there on that. But do you have anything else you'd like to add about total dependency? No. Well, one thing, dehumanizing, I think, is you absolutely feel that you do not matter at all in the relationship, and they've made you feel like you're nothing.

00:16:41.280 And that can look like maybe sitting down, sharing your heart, deep things in your heart that you would like to address in your relationship. And the person not even looking at you, kind of looking around, ignoring you, basically, or getting up, walking away and leaving and leaving you standing there with all of the what you just shared and then feeling very rejected, very unheard, very devalued and dehumanized.

00:17:17.700 Right. That's a great way to put it dehumanized. That's such a classic example. And another thing I'd like to add to that, too, that they try to do is withhold affection. So it's another way of dehumanizing you. It's another way of them controlling when and where they actually give affection. So all of these things in their mind are making them feel stronger, making them more powerful. And it's not in a good way. It's in a very bad way. It's a very destructive way for your relationship, first of all, and for the other person's emotions.

00:17:49.620 As Allison was mentioning, when you have the unprocessed emotions too, you get triggered. And so the emotions, once they come out, as we mentioned a number of times, they start to heal because you're understanding the depth of them. You're understanding the tools to understand where you are and where your little child is, your inner child. And as you come into adulthood, as we mentioned a number of times, but you're able to do that. But when you're in this codependency, you're not able to see clearly.

00:18:21.300 And that's just really devastating for you as a person who is part of this codependent relationship. And I don't think anybody really wants to be a part of it. It just happens. So again, we went from common examples to increasing the level of control to codependency. And codependency is the worst. It really is the worst in that relationship of two people who will never experience true happiness. They don't experience it at all.

00:18:50.640 They don't experience, they've just experienced true loneliness. Yeah And it's very difficult for people. Yeah, and I mean, you don't think you can live without the person. You've gotten to the point where you don't think you can live without the person, or you'll never make it without the person. They've made you think that you can't. And that is a horrible way to live. And it's not what God intended for our lives. Absolutely. And that triggers something.

00:19:20.160 So one of the things that happened in the relationship that I've mentioned is that there is a straw that breaks the camel's back. And the person was everything we have been talking about, controlling and all of these other things. But it got to the point where she said she told me that I was controlling and I was not controlling. I was trying to adjust to a situation that was out of hand.

00:19:50.700 And at that point, I had it. And I said, I'm going to leave. My mind was made up. I was going to leave. But my heart was still saying, oh, if she only just stops me or if she only says something, but I was so happy that didn't happen because it got to the point where I think she understood that that was enough. I wasn't going to take anymore. And my heart, even though it was breaking and hurting, I just knew I had to get out of there.

00:20:20.820 And that's God. Mm-hmm. That is God. It's a difficult, difficult situation. I wanted to just bring that up because I know how difficult it is. Truly, I know I'm not a person that just kind of wants to walk away. I want to stay and try to, you know, work it through and whatever else. But there's just a point in this point of this relationship. I couldn't do it anymore. I'm so glad that God gave me the strength to get through it. He will give you that strength too.

00:20:48.540 And it's been a long process, no question, but with his strength you can get through. He'll give you the strength and he'll make away because I had a similar situation just that triggered while you were talking about it where you know I knew it was just it had reached a point where I knew that it was time for me to go, but I still wanted to make it work. I still wanted to do something to make it work.

00:21:16.620 And so I I pleaded for there to be counsel. And when the word came back to me, no, it wasn't going to happen. Then I just I knew I had to go because I knew that it wasn't good for me. And I knew that if I did not go, I would be in a place that I'd never want to be again. And so I knew that God was leading me out of there because that's not how he created me to be in relationship.

00:21:50.400 And I also knew that in retrospect, I watched how he made a way for me and he will do that too. Right. Exactly. We're bringing this up not to disparage the people within these relationships. We're bringing it up as an example of what we had to go through. So again, we keep saying that we've walked the walk and we certainly have, but it's taken a long time, but with the strength of God and really holding his hand as he reads as though, it's a very important part of the process.

00:22:22.080 And again, going back to, we understand that a lot of you may not have had that type of understanding about God, but that's truly who he is. He wants the best for us. We were talking earlier about the last show, about his love, seeing us and still thinking it was worth to continue on with his plan. But he did see us. And what Jesus has done, I'm sorry, I just can't thank the Lord enough for what He's done for us.

00:22:52.320 And it's all of us. It's not just you know for believers, for unbelievers too. And we want to make sure that you understand if you're somebody who would love to know more about Christ, you know certainly send you some contact to us, and we certainly love to reach out to you and to continue the conversation in that area. But these are real things that we've gone through and examples that we're illustrating to try to help you understand the evilness that's a part of all this.

00:23:23.400 And we just want to do the best that we can for you. I'm sorry. It's kind of as we talk about it, we get triggered. But for us, we also have to be healthy too to help you, as we mentioned. And for us to have the support group and just talking to you about all of these examples of things as supportive, you know support for us too, because we know how wrong it is, and we know that God's way for us for interpersonal relationships is so different than what so many of us have faced and are facing at this current time.

00:23:55.620 Yes. Yeah, it's true. And he has a greater plan for all of us. He loves us all. He is not selective in that. That's for sure. And we've all walked that, you know, and we've all walked the blindness of not knowing and thinking that it was something completely different than what it really is. Right. And I'm telling you, it's amazing and wonderful. And we just want everyone to know about it.

00:24:25.260 Right. It is an important part of, you know, it may take time, but it's an important part of helping you to understand how his love will help you. It's his love. It's not like our love. It's his love through us. He places it on our heart to help you because we've been through it. And Rick Warren is a pastor. I'm not sure I've ever heard of him. Yeah, Rick. Exactly. Yeah. He's out in California.

00:24:55.020 Well, anyway, he had a great example of how you can fill your calling. If you've been through things, which we have, he takes that experience because that's something wasn't given by him. It's just the evilness, but he'll take it. Would you mind explaining how he takes it? No, you go right ahead. No, it's really just Romans 8:28. He will turn everything together for the greater good of those who love and will call according to his purpose.

00:25:27.360 He works all things together for good. Absolutely. All of it that happened to us. He will work it all together. Right. And even if you're going through the heartache of what you're going through now, we're not minimizing that at all. Because again, to be in that place of confusion, of not having any help, it's maddening. It's frustrating. And you're just beyond, how can I say it? What would be the best word?

00:25:53.220 I guess you feel that you know there's no help although, I guess, no support, as we keep saying. But we truly want you to understand that as he places it on our hearts to move forward, we, in turn, Allison and myself in the ministry and other people who are caregivers will come alongside and we'll help you see the true God, the true living, loving God, and how we can take everything and work it for the greater good.

00:26:23.640 So as he overcomes evil, so as you come to counseling, as you come into group settings, as you are understanding our teachings and our message, when you come into that, you'll see the true love of God and how if you're coming in with what happened to you via evil, and that's a terrible thing. It's absolutely saddening for our hearts to see that. But then you can see how over the course of time, God just breaks that away. He will do that.

00:26:51.600 And we just hope that we will be good representations for you to see that as you go forward with the tools that we're providing, the steps that we need to take to help you. When I say the steps that we need to take as individuals to help yourselves and help you to have that toolbox that is just waiting there for you. We are so blessed. I can't describe the joy that we have. We go through things, but the joy that we have to be able to present this to you, it's excitement for us because we want you to be free from what you're dealing with.

00:27:25.980 Yeah And God has asked us to do that. We're not saying God says, Israel, you do this. We're here as His hands and feet, as we've mentioned so many times, and that's our calling. That's right. It's truly our calling. So we want to mention that. Comfort those the way that you have been comforted. That's so true. And we can bring that example to you because we have been comforted and we've felt the heartache too, but God was right there with us. Yeah So that's what we want to mention. Anything else about that?

00:27:53.880 Just that you know it's that knowing the love of God and then having all kinds of wonderful resources and tools in your toolbox that will help you get through. Right, right. So we thank you again. I know this is a little like a two-part series, but we wanted to mention this because it's on our hearts. And we understand that there are unbelievers out there who may not have seen the love of God. Boy, do we get that. And we are just brokenhearted for that. There are people out there that just misinterpreted God's Word.

00:28:24.960 They have created evil acts based on their own doing and also evilness. And they have perpetrated hurts that are just unimaginable. But our goal here is we are loosed. Our Lord Jesus did the work for us. We are in His kingdom of light. And we just want to bring that to you. Our heart is to truly help you break free of the turmoil, you know, the pain and anything else that you're going through. We truly want to help that.

00:28:53.760 So we want to thank you again. I know this is a little longer, as I mentioned. Do you want to add anything else? I just want to say thank you for being here. And I hope that something that we've said has been helpful for you. We know it would have been for us if we had had this. Exactly. So thank you again for joining. Thank you. And please send any questions or comments to moment musings at gmail.com. And we just thank you for joining us. And we just wish you have a really wonderfully blessed day and know that we are with you.

00:29:22.260 And again, you're a miracle. Yes, you are. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you. You have a great day.