00:00:01.000 Hello, and thanks for joining us at mailmac musings where we reveal the intersection between God and science for living wholeheartedly. Our passion is to thoughtfully comment and bring awareness, tools, and resources for healing trauma within the body of Christ. As children of God, Gerard MacLellan and I, Allison Miller, collaborate to bring increased understanding of the wounds of trauma through our unique life experiences and personal journeys of healing through the love of Christ.

00:00:39.000 Our desire is to bring a fresh perspective for living, wholeheartedly. Hi, everyone. My name is Gerard and welcome to mill Mac musings. And we just here today and this is my partner, Allison, and we are starting so much starting. We're going further into abuse. And preparing for the show, we watched a wonderful video too alongside of the other research we did from doctor lamberg.

00:01:11.000 And we will bring in some of that some of that information as well. But first of all, we would like to start out with a prayer that we found really from a wonderful person who went through such torment of physical violence of her sister who was murdered. So we'd like to start a prayer if that's okay, would you mind doing that? Yeah. I think that. God, I lived up all who have been hurt by the words or actions of others.

00:01:41.000 I pray that you would heal their wounds and help them know what you think of them. Father, this isn't what you designed for your creation. And yet, because we live in a fallen world, we know this does happen. I pray you would help all of us know which thoughts we need to hold on to, and which ones we need to dismiss. And father, if we need to forgive someone, will you give us the strength to do that?

00:02:11.000 I pray that those who feel shame would give that shame to you for you tell us there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Help all lord, and when things seem impossible, we commit those things to you. We pray all this in your son's precious and holy name. Amen. Thank you.

00:02:37.000 So today we're going to go a bit deeper into a verbal and emotional abuse and again, at least other abuses as well could. But anyway, one of the biggest things that we understand is that all of this is detrimental to relationships. So we want to point out a few things and would you like to start out on some of the examples we wanted to talk about or how would you like to do it? Yeah. Or if you wanted to talk a little bit about what Diane shared with us about okay.

00:03:08.000 What that can look like in the church and the church dealing with this and that's a great way to do it. Well, as we've said in many podcasts prior to this, is that the trauma awareness and a church and that's something that is needs to be addressed and it needs to be something that we all are a part of to help people to come alongside people who need the help as we've mentioned before. But that's our true desire here at the ministry.

00:03:37.000 And she brought up really wonderful, wonderful points, and I think one of the first things that I would like to address too is that it's the amount of the abuse that has been hidden within the church. And that is one of the sore spots for people who actually go to church to get here, but you have people to help them or just to just to try to find anybody who will come alongside and believe them, help them, and help them to get through it.

00:04:10.000 And she really there's so many statistics that she threw out there that just it scares you about how uninformed as far as the church goes. But it's up to us. And for people as way people to come alongside the people who need the help. And there is a ministry in churches around now that's a big part, not a big part, but it's starting to happen where people have started to understand the ramifications of letting that be hidden.

00:04:41.000 But sexual abuse, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and all of this. One of the biggest things that you pointed out that stuck out to me was it's all a crime. And that was something that it's very true. We know that, but we don't really think about that, particularly in a church where I think we had talked about and it's kind of, you know, you just hide it. It's just not something that, oh, there's an issue or they have issues.

00:05:08.000 But when somebody comes up to you and says, I've been abused and whatever way. It's really up to us to listen to them because we have found out through statistics from Diane that very, very rarely do people lie about that. And whether that's a child or an adult, and we have to have the act of listening and the empathy to sit there with them. We don't judge them, and we don't look deep into the problem.

00:05:38.000 We let them talk to us. And that is where the love of Christ comes in is we have the empathy to sit with them to actively listen. And that's what they want. And they can see if your heart is with them. They can see through body language. They can tell by your mannerisms. They can tell how you're listening. And that's what they're looking for. They just want to be heard because they're hurting so deeply.

00:06:04.000 And I just think that these statistics that she threw out, again, we're going to bring up a few more just to tell tale sign of where we are and how much more we have to do with this. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think one of the things that really struck home with me that Diane shared, which is so true is it's a grievous work. And. I know that Gerard and I would not be here if we were not called to be here.

00:06:33.000 And because I think I'm pretty sure there are some other things that we would enjoy. But because it is a calling, it's such a deep place in our heart to want to help others and because of our personal experience through these things and our desire to help other people come. Out of that.

00:06:56.000 And so you know Gerard said, the church is really working hard, I think, to address these issues. But not everybody in the church is equipped to handle these issues. And so because we are live ministers and it is our heart to bring healing and help to people.

00:07:27.000 We do study this. We have experienced it. We do understand it and we're not the end all be all. But we definitely. Have a heart to want to bring this more into the church to bring awareness more into the church of you know these things that happen in people's lives that as Diane said are happening and our homes and our neighbors homes in the pews of the you know people that are sitting next to you in the pews and we're just covering it up and hiding it and afraid to talk about it, but it's real.

00:08:11.000 And we need to look at in the face and we need to help address it. So that's one of the things that really stood out to me and one other thing she said, which I think is so powerful for us to understand as the church as the body of Christ as we are looking at how we can come and help people.

00:08:37.000 Is we have a form of the church, but the substance is rotten if we are not addressing the broken hearted. Yeah. So that's an excellent point. Thank you for sharing that. We're also talking about people, as we said before, if you podcast before, they don't understand the true nature of God.

00:09:06.000 They've never been showed it. Nobody has come alongside them to show them the love of Christ. Just do not understand how such evil bad things can happen to them. And again, they're reaching out, particularly for trauma based mind control or complex trauma. They're reaching out for a higher entity, and that's usually intelligent evil. And it's certainly not God. God, I mean, we have a choice in life.

00:09:33.000 But so many people, it gets back to mirroring the generations before, and they just don't know how to do it. And you know getting back into the church aspect of it, they also brought a great point, which we know as well, is that as far as seminary school, they don't teach any of this. They don't teach you really the pastors and ministry leaders about the crime of sexual abuse or any of you. It's all a crime because you're perpetrating your actions on somebody else.

00:10:03.000 And that's just the powerful against the weak. And so I'm bringing Jesus into the mix here because first of all, we're all created by him. And he came down and it was great how Diane mentioned this, he came down from beauty to chaos. And it was the dungeons of our heart. And again, this is for true believers. And anybody wants to come to Christ you know. It's just the most wonderful thing.

00:10:28.000 It's a trueness and it's love and you know you read the whole Bible and you read the answer textuality of the Old Testament New Testament and new, usually you see a God that is you feel it if you don't understand how it all fits together, you see it two different gods, so to speak, but Jesus came down and was the face of God. That's who God is. And that's what's wonderful about the deepest study of the word. And so forth is because you can see it from the beginning of genesis to revelation.

00:11:00.000 That nothing's changed, but there's reasons why things happened. And I say all this because, again, for people who don't know God and don't understand the love of God, understanding what hurt and torment and anger they have and don't understand it. We just want you to understand and to know that it's real. God is there for us. And it's okay to be mad. It's okay to not understand it because I was as we were talking before the podcast. I was in a relationship where I get so mad at God.

00:11:29.000 And I was mad at the situation. And I couldn't understand it. The abuse that was happening. I just didn't understand it. And God was with us. And God was with me as I walked through everything. I didn't see it at the time. I was angry. But the thing is you get it out. And when you get the anger out, God is there to help you to heal those. We were talking about. So I just wanted to mention that aspect of where the church and the ministry leaders they don't understand how to investigate crimes of that nature.

00:12:01.000 Right. So it needs to be reported. To the legal authorities that can report it. And one of the things that we talked about that we're going to do is add to our meal map musings dot org website. Access for you, links for you if you are in a situation that is threatening to your life or your in a domestic violence or emotional abuse or any type of abusive situation.

00:12:33.000 There are other resources out there that can help you and so we're going to put the national domestic violence hotline website on there for you so that if you need help outside of you need immediate help and how to create a plan and what you need. But also our ministry is not only for those people who are experiencing the abuse.

00:13:05.000 Our ministry also is to help us see in ourselves if we are being an abuser. Because we've talked about before how we don't sometimes we don't even know that we're doing these things emotionally that are hurting people. And maybe we don't understand what they've been through. We don't know them.

00:13:33.000 But we create triggers in their lives and we don't know how to deal with that. And so we want to help that end of it too. That's so well said. We each have, as we said before, we each have our own self, our own being that we have to be. And we have to be healthy as actually has made us to me. And each of us have to do that.

00:13:58.000 And again, there are times when you go through maybe counseling or the research or understanding or whatever we have to offer on our website, and we will be a gateway to other avenues that will help you in different ways. But why I'm saying all this is that when you're dealing with yourself first and kind of getting into the meet, you're able to have empathy to the other person. And that's that really helps as far as the relationship goes because you can step back.

00:14:30.000 And if they're still within their realm, they still have to work on themselves. But you can have a better dialog with them because if they'll see your change and if they can do two things, you can either be frightened by it or they can embrace it. A lot of times, I guess they could be frightened initially. But once they see the love of God within you, helping them. That's when they'll say, okay, you know, I'll change. Let me try to change. And the thing is, you have to know how to do it.

00:14:58.000 That's why we're here to try to show you or give you the tools to be able to help you do that. And it's something that I want to point out something I know this is kind of pulling it out of thin air, but people who suffer from trauma based, I mean, yeah, trauma based mind control or really complex trauma, we're talking about you know it's a crime, and it is a crime, but what happens is a lot of people think that if the person who is above perpetrating the trauma based mind control, and it can be very severe and it can make you do something that's not legal.

00:15:36.000 And it is a crime. However, what happens in the courts, the courts know that that person did that to you and because of the trauma based and because of the mind control that's under them, they're the ones that are responsible for the crime, not whatever you have committed, based in that circumstance. I can well, I guess we can put that on our website. I can show that. Material. So you will understand that. That's one of the things they try to do. They said, who's going to believe you? You're going to be charged for this.

00:16:06.000 I mean, it could be I mean, it can go even all the way up to murder. Because it's such a severe complex trauma that you're going through that you just want relief and you're just doing whatever. And so I want to just stipulate that because again, it is in a court of law that that's a rule and it will put more information on there that if you're in that situation and you have committed what some of the things we're talking about, they are responsible for it because they're the ones that did that to your mind.

00:16:37.000 And I just wanted to point that out to bring that in. Yeah. And it's a crime. And it's hard. I think sometimes when you're aware of that, and you know you may know that it's a crime, and you may try to remove yourself from a situation, and you may want to. I think it can be very difficult to go through the court process for a person that is emotionally battered.

00:17:07.000 Okay? And so because you can tend to think and this is a little bit off too, but you can tend to think that you know you can't manage that emotionally. And maybe you can't. And that's okay. That you just don't want to go down that road or how do you prove it or how do you make someone understand that what you are saying is true because the other person is saying it's not true.

00:17:38.000 And you know this is where we can help you. Very much. And prepare you for those. And I don't mean more preparing you for a legal battle. I'm saying we can prepare your mind and get it clear. And get your mind healed. From the emotional abuse that has taken place in your life. Right. Yeah. And that's important for you to know.

00:18:04.000 And anybody who's gone through it again, I've said this many times that my heart, the anxiety, but I was going through, I just didn't have the resources available. We will make resources available to you as well. So you can come in and we'll help you with the tools that we have to help you with as Alison was seen with the mind and help you with the emotional aspects of things. But we'll also have resources to point you in the right direction to help for further steps after that.

00:18:32.000 But first of all, you have to just become the best me that you can be and just to get healed. That's the whole thing. And Jesus does it all. He really does. We are his hands and feet as I said many times. We are in a place where we go out and look at what God is doing and we just follow that reflection. We're going to that work of redemption. And that's what our ministry is to help people who have gone through the traumatic experiences, both trauma and for complex trauma and other areas too.

00:19:03.000 Yeah, totally agree. Yeah. You want to share something now about examples about how people make us dependent on them. I think last week we talked about just some very common basic examples and we put a of abuse, a verbal abuse, and then we put a. Graphic up on our website.

00:19:29.000 And today, we wanted to talk a little bit more about examples of how people use abuse to create dependence upon them so that you feel powerless. Right. Exactly. So I'm just going to name a few of them. Let me just list them. And then we have examples. Okay. So we have examples of it all.

00:19:57.000 So we're just going to look into the common examples, examples of it. So we're going to go with the first three, okay? Name calling, patronizing, and character assassinations. And so it just you know the name calling could be anything from good, stupid, or whatever the case may be. And then patronizing, and I think we all know that. It's not you know not being very kind. Let's put it that way. It's being abusive. And so the other thing is character assassination is we've talked about before.

00:20:27.000 And we've talked before the podcast. It's the use statements of you, you, you. So it's always shifting blame for them to you and they want you to carry the burden of that. So I know that for me, I think we said this before too, is that name calling a words are very hurtful. And what we still saying sticks and stones make break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

00:20:55.000 No, that's the furthest from the truth. Yeah, words hurt. Yeah, they really do. And I know I think guilty of it too. And I've received it as well. And I think that's what Allison was mentioning before is that sometimes we have done this. And we've done it once we have learned the difficulties of what we're doing, which is heaping this on other people interpersonal relationships. We know it's wrong.

00:21:22.000 And so thankfully you know, with the help of Jesus, we can step back and get away from that and just to be coming out of the empathy because we can remember how it felt for us within a relationship to get some very, very hurtful words said to us. And it diminishes your value you know. Internally, you feel like you don't have any value. However, if you look at going to bring Jesus into it again, if you look at what Jesus did for us, he's our warrior king.

00:21:55.000 He came down to defeat evil, which is rampant throughout the world, but he defeated it. And we are the beneficiaries of that. So when we look at what Jesus did for us, we can understand that his heart. He gives us the heart of flush. To move forward with that. And I don't want to go too deep into that, but do you have anything else to add about what we're talking about with the first three? Well, I mean, you can talk about the yelling and verbal intimidation.

00:22:22.000 Making you feel less when you're getting yelled at, making you feel like you don't know what you're talking about. You know, that is a great example. Pushing the buttons thing is something that affects you and they push that button. And I mean, it's because they know you that they can do that. But it is ultimately it can be a trigger for you.

00:22:52.000 Okay. And so again, we've talked about this before, but when someone's pushing your buttons, it's almost as if you're reliving that again. You're reliving that experience as if it is happening for the first time again. Right. Dismissiveness is really big. You know, you could be very, there could be something that's very important to you. And you could be sharing that with your partner.

00:23:22.000 And they could just be looking around, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then but I wanted this way. I mean, you have no there's no value to what you are saying. They don't value. And what you're saying, and it makes you feel in it. And it makes you feel inadequate unless you know for sure. But when you're in the middle of all of that, it's very difficult to think in a healthy way.

00:23:56.000 That's a great way to put it. Yeah, absolutely. Because you can't. When you're caught up in there's not so much you're caught up in it, you're just bombarded with it. You get this all the time with the pushing of the buttons. It's not good. It really it's something that is really truly evil. And sometimes we do it in a Berlin. We're not saying we're perfect, but when I do it consistently, that's abuse. And it's abuse over and over again. And when I was trying to say, as the final point about Jesus, you are worthy.

00:24:25.000 You're absolutely so worthy that he did what he did because he loves you so much. And nobody else in the world is like, nobody. And that's the way he designed it. Yeah. And he wants you just to be healed. He wants you to go out there and do his work. When I say that, he puts it on your heart and you want to do it. It's not like you're, oh, I have to do it. No, he puts it on your heart. And he wants to do it. So getting back to what we're talking about here, there's so many different things.

00:24:54.000 One of the other things that I noticed that I have done in the past too, and I've had it done to me as a joking. You say you're joking, but really it's more sarcasm, it's more of a dig. And you're trying to mask it as joking. It's not. It's hurtful. And I'm not saying that in a way of being you know condemning or trying to pose guilt on you. It's just that it's wrong. And when this is where, as you say, the triggers, that could set off triggers, but it's also when we step back.

00:25:27.000 When we understand that this is hurtful to other people, that's the point where the healing begins. That's the point where an interpersonal relationship of a couple or friends, when you have the empathy, when one person has the empathy, it can help the other person because you'll see even through what we're talking about here, yelling too for another example, that there's something underlining underneath all of this.

00:25:56.000 And when you have that, when you see that, okay, there's something that they're saying or doing. Is it really something that is you know against me or is it something underlying that's causing them to act this way? And that's really what it's about. And I'm not trying to simplify it to the point of that easy. But once you hail your you don't hear yourself, but once you understand the tools to help with the interpersonal relationships, that's when you can see it.

00:26:26.000 And that's when this all diminishes. And it diminishes in such a healthy way. And the other person can see that. In most cases, the other person will see that. And then they'll say, they'll have the, I guess, the understanding that you're not their enemy. You're not against them. You're for them. And when they see that, that breaks that tension that breaks that, it really just unveils the veils off their eyes.

00:26:54.000 They can see a better you and they can see how your love is there for them. And it's not against them you know. Not the loves against them, but you're for them, not against them, especially. Yeah. Yeah. And just to summarize that, these are all symptoms. Right. These are all symptoms of underlying unprocessed emotions and wounds in people's lives. And they hurt people with that and we go back to our phrase of hurting people for people.

00:27:28.000 And so you know these are all great examples of very common examples of what happens. Maybe an insult about your appearance. Maybe they think you're too heavy or they don't like the way you dressed or you're too skinny or you need to go on a diet or whatever they may say or maybe what you didn't do your hair today or whatever it is. I mean, those are just real things. That happened to people.

00:27:57.000 And so I mean, those are hurtful, but you know you got to look at and go back to the generational aspect of it. Where did they learn this? You know, did somebody do this to them? And there's no blame in that because it goes back generation to generation to generation. And we learn things wrong, and we do things wrong. We're broken people. We're dysfunctional.

00:28:27.000 But I think we wanted to talk a little more too about how people call dependency and how they create dependency on themselves. And some of those are you know disputing your feelings. Perhaps you know you tell them you express to them a way that you feel about something and they completely turn around and tell you that you don't feel that way.

00:28:59.000 And that's not true. Or it's a lie or and that is, to me, that's combined with dismissiveness and basically tuning you out. And it's saying to you, to your heart, what it's saying is I don't have real feelings. I don't even know what I feel. Maybe I don't feel that way. Gosh, do I not know who I am? You know, you start to really wonder.

00:29:27.000 And you start believing what this person is saying to you. And then you start questioning. Everything about your life. There's ways of communicating that end up being controlling. Maybe like me, you've been in a conversation with someone you were in a relationship with, and you've tried to express yourself and concerns.

00:29:54.000 And instead of being listened to and being validated in your feelings, the person turns around and takes over the conversation, starts yelling, telling you that that's not how it is. That's never happened before. And so you don't know what to do. And a lot of times when we've talked about how our brain operates and how we don't know how to respond, because we can't think because we're in a level of stress at that moment.

00:30:28.000 And I mean, those are just two examples of you know how people create dependency. Right. Now, when just to explain further about how this also affects the me. Yeah. So when your mind will and emotions that you know, when we're in a healthy place, you might want an emotions within you. You haven't given them up, but with this dependency and all of these things we're mentioning, you're giving up your mind will and emotions to another person.

00:31:00.000 And the reason some of that is because of your reverse childhood experiences you've had in your childhood. And then in a child that is has dealt with those things at that time that you've brought into adulthood, but also when you're giving that to the other person, you're not you. You're just creating the dependency on them. And that's not healthy as you know. And we all know it's not very healthy. And I've been there, trust me.

00:31:30.000 Yeah. So I'm speaking from experience. I wish it didn't have to say that, but I do. And I'm happy to bring this out to, first of all, be vulnerable about how you know I think we're pretty vulnerable, fortunately, because that's the way you can understand it. It's a me too situation that, okay, they've been through it. So that's where our heart comes in. But again, you need to keep your mind well and emotions within your healthy.

00:31:57.000 And if you give them to somebody else because as you were mentioning, you're thinking your mental processes you know, you're in protection or you might be in Olympic area with emotions. And if there's unprocessed emotions, you are just funny. You just wanting to be with that person because you think that person may be telling you the truth and you're just not quite sure about all of that. But unfortunately, if you don't have your me, my will and emotions.

00:32:27.000 And it just really is so helpful to be strong enough to understand that. And then within a relationship, if somebody, once you understand that, if somebody is doing that to you, you're certainly address that in a more positive way. And just say, no, no, that's not it. I can only stay within me. You have to stay within you. And otherwise, the dependency comes about, and that's not a good thing. Yeah. So true. Well, you shared you know we've talked about that Diane shared some statistics in her video.

00:32:58.000 And we do know some of the statistics and one of the things that we don't think about so often is that you know we know there are a lot of men that have used, but there are also women that appease. And you were going to share an example, real life example of a woman who in your life who abused you and made you feel oh, yeah. I went through maybe an abusive relationship and going through it.

00:33:29.000 I think I mentioned earlier about, first of all, the anger that came out from that. But secondly, it was a situation where the abuse was very heavy. And it was something that I went through because of that. And again, I wasn't in my own me. My mind was an emotion. And this is by trying to explain to that. I've gone through it. I gave it to somebody else. So it just spiraled out of control, meaning that my emotions, my feelings was I was unworthy.

00:34:01.000 I had very, very low self esteem. I was just going and it was almost like it was a gas lighting part of it, too, where I was like, is this true? Could this be true? And that's what happens when you have somebody who perpetrates the abuse on you. And it doesn't say you're perfect, and you know you can get angry, which is a very normal emotion when that happens. But overall, when you're dealing with that type of you know, it can be something that we really need to address.

00:34:34.000 And again, we could go further into it. I know the podcast is probably not too long for me. We're getting close to okay. Anyway, I just wanted to explain that I've been through it. And I understand that there are times when you you know, first of all, it was anxiety. There was through the roof and all of these are so unhealthy and they just play such havoc with everything. Your mind, your body, just your self esteem and just all the emotions that you're dealing with.

00:35:04.000 So it's very important to address that. Is the church we have to address and we have to show people the traumas wheel and that we have to listen to people and we have to make sure that we are active listeners in all of this as well. Right. Yeah. You know, there are just so many different areas that you can have emotional abuse. And so many times the emotional abuse leads to physical abuse, and it can start with something very small.

00:35:36.000 And then grow. And so our heart is really just to help you have a good understanding of what that looks like. So that when you're in that situation, you can take the steps that are necessary for your life and do it in a way that is protecting your mind will and emotions so that you're not handing it over. I think as people pleasers, we have a tendency to really do that.

00:36:05.000 Yeah. So yeah you know. I think next week we could I mean, we could talk about this a little bit more and we could we could weave in what it looks like, what unsafe people look like. Sure. We can certainly do that. I just want to bring in I just want to thank one more thing too that the Diane should have really struck home with me was that I was so many of them.

00:36:34.000 So I keep saying that. But it's not just an ops you know. It's not just something that you know I had a bad day. This is very, very real. It's a crime as we've mentioned. And what you really said is so true, it starts off small. And when a person is not is in a very abusive man, it comes across powerful tries to portray the power.

00:37:03.000 They can go from a verbal emotional abuse quickly into physical abuse. And you know it's very, very real. And it happens very quickly. So one of you's leading to the other, leading to the other, you kind of this is what happened to me. You would kind of say, I would go into I must deserve this or whatever the case may be. Oh my gosh, I must have done something wrong or whatever you're thinking.

00:37:34.000 It's not true because nobody has the right to do this to you. You will do it to the other person, even you don't want to, you shouldn't. And you don't want to and you shouldn't receive that. God is so good. He created each of us for interpersonal relationships. Again, it gets down to each of us helping with you know we have strengths to help the other person's weaknesses and vice versa. That's the way it's supposed to be. So any abuse is not something that God wants, or that's just truly against the law.

00:38:06.000 It's true against the word of God. And so in all these areas, what I'm trying to say is you shouldn't take it. You will have resources to help you to understand the other avenues that you may have available to address this. So it doesn't spiral as it had in my life. Yeah. People use power to abuse the vulnerable. Oh, good point yeah. And so we want you to be able to know how to stand up against that.

00:38:39.000 Yeah, we want you to have the resources available to be able to do that. Because when you're sitting there going through it and helps not available, the way it should be, your research you know, the yeah, reaching out and it might be people out there to help you. But we want to make sure that you have the proper help with the proper ministries and organizations that will really help you to deal with this. Yeah. For sure. And anything else you want to share?

00:39:08.000 I think I'm okay. Myself, how about you? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, we want to say thank you so much. For joining us today. And we will go further and deeper into this study. We're given kind of an overview. Everything's an overview you know. It just keeps going. We can have a seriously go deeper and deeper and deeper. And I said, well, too. But anyway, we just want to bring this out as a topic just to get it out there. And hopefully this will help you understand and help your heart as you move forward with whatever you're dealing with.

00:39:41.000 And we just want to thank you again. Yeah. Thanks so much for being with us. And if you have any questions, you can email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. And you can visit our website at mail map musings dot org. And you can always email us with any topic you would like us to talk about that is related to this or any other issues that.

00:40:10.000 Are fall into the mental and emotional and physical health aspects. We love the lord, and we know the lord loves you, and he created you and he's the he's our great shepherd. And we love psalm 23. Oh, yeah. The lord is my shepherd. And I shall not want. He leaves me alone in green pastures. And guides me along.

00:40:37.000 Streams. The screams. And we just ended up there. There's so much more to that, but it's just it's just showing the love of God and what sheep as we probably all know. It's not done. They're not the smartest animals. So anyway, a lord is awesome, and we just want to thank you again for joining us. And have a wonderful blessed day and one more thing. You are America. Yes. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Bye. Bye bye now.