00:00:06.000 Hi, everyone. My name is Gerard. As I've mentioned in times, and this is Allison. I'm a ministry partner and we're here today to be talking about some really great things that portray makes a great, probably bad choice of word, but what I mean is just a training some of the other areas that get caught up in with abuse.

00:00:29.000 And one of them we're going to start right now is with gaslighting. And Allison and I prior to the show, we kind of prepped a little bit. And we were talking about, for me, in a relationship, I have a relationship. I want to actually move through. I wanted to judge some of the things as you move forward. But before we start, I'd love for Alison to really just mention a meaning. Gaslighter, would you mind just explaining it?

00:00:59.000 Do you have it happen with you? Yes. I do. It's really an attempt by another person to control another person. And typically that happens inside a romantic relationship or someone that you're intimately close with. It could be a business colleague or a friendship or romantic partnership. That's a great point.

00:01:28.000 And before we start, getting deeper into it, I want to just say that each of us are capable of this. And it's more of an unintentional way because we really just don't understand it. And it basically was we go into our human nature. We really can do this because sometimes we aren't aware of how to handle the other person. And sometimes we just say things because we just say them. So we're trying to differentiate between that and what really truly is the evil part of gaslighting.

00:02:00.000 And another thing that I'd like to mention is that with gaslighting as well, you have people who are not quite sure they're doing it as they are. And you're doing it in a way that as you were mentioning controlling the situation and control people. And when I was mentioning earlier, I was in a relationship with somebody who was doing that. And for me, it was spiraling out of control. It was your thoughts.

00:02:29.000 I'm not your own anymore because you're so unsure of what's going on. You're very just confused. And when you're confused, you're looking inward and you're not looking at what the other person is actually saying to doing, but you're accepting it as truth or at least trying to say, is it me you know? You're going anywhere. And it's a very devastating thing that can happen to people. And it's really truly evil.

00:02:56.000 People who, as you were mentioning earlier, Alison too was they have low self esteem. And you know they have such contempt for the other person. And I'd like you to, would you mind just going on a little bit what you were saying earlier about that? Because there's really powerful. If you wouldn't mind explaining it a bit more. Well, I'll actually read the definition that I would be great for that. And then go in a little bit to content.

00:03:27.000 Okay. So gaslighting is actually a highly calculating form of manipulation. And again, people may or may not know that they're doing this. But many times it's intentional. It involves destabilizing another individual over a period of time. So like Gerard was saying it gets you to a point where you have self doubt, you can't make decisions, you're not sure you're doing things right.

00:03:58.000 Maybe you're not cleaning the kitchen upright. Maybe you're not doing your work right. And you begin to feel like you're going crazy. But it is also referred to as coercive control. And it's carried out by somebody who is in a position of trust. So someone that you trust, someone close to you, again, that could be you know either an intimate friend, a family member, a spouse, or even a close colleague.

00:04:32.000 But the usual deliberate means of intentionality, of intentionally controlling an individual, which is carried out over an extended period of time, is what that is. And they destabilize and control them by attacking faculties to make the victim think their emotional stability, credibility, or memory is flawed.

00:05:00.000 And that's powerful right there. But also part of the reason that a Gerard was saying there is low self esteem in the people that gaslight others. They don't have confidence within themselves, and they don't have a stain. But they also do that so that they don't have to take responsibility.

00:05:28.000 For what they've done, it's a really a form of blame. In a very manipulative way. So they're insecure and they don't have self esteem. But what is happening is in this place where this begins and a life of someone, the person who is the gaslighter is typically a person who really has come to a place in his life, maybe he's had a lot of anger and that anger has grown into contempt.

00:06:07.000 And that content is mostly, again, back to the insecurity and the lack of self esteem and that person's life, but they actually are projecting onto others, what they feel about themselves. And it can be intentional or not. It's one of the most damaging negative communication styles that there is.

00:06:40.000 And. I love Brene Brown of read her for many years. And she has a wonderful book, but she really talks about this. A lot in her book. Not specifically gaslighting, but contempt. And what that looks like. And so that's a resource that we'll be putting on our blog for you. So that you'll have that.

00:07:08.000 But in marriage, it's a very corrosive force. And really, in any relationship, but when you think about marriage, you know, you're with that person all the time. So you really don't have the capacity to move away from that. So there are ways that we can do things that will help us through that.

00:07:33.000 But it's just hard for someone to deal with and draw now both have had that in our lives. And we've probably done it to people without realizing it. Yeah. It's very easily done like that. Yeah. But you know just one of the things that through the learning about this many times in a relationship is the first start, so we all go through a romantic relationship.

00:08:06.000 We'll stick with a couple of romantic relationships. Is that the trust is built up by the other person? Because you don't see that in at all. So it's hidden. And so as you come to trust them and you come to the point where you think everything is going to be work work out fine or to a point whenever somebody hides something, you just don't know their true are. And that's very damaging and married with that person for life and time because that's when the trust builds up.

00:08:38.000 And then they start going as you were described. When they start doing that, that's where your questioning yourself. That's where from my perspective, where I started the question to myself, and I was just trying to keep some type of focus on, is it real? Is could it be me? Because a lot of times you're thinking inwardly, you're saying, okay, maybe it's me. It's making a mistake. Maybe I'm like understanding this correctly.

00:09:09.000 But it's a very damaging thing. And when it starts to get to the point where you're questioning everything and you're going through the time so being blamed for things, when it's there issue or their fault, and they're turning it on you, but you can't you're in a position where they've done it in such a manipulative way that you don't see it. And that's where the damage comes from. And I like what you had mentioned earlier too.

00:09:39.000 Was about, once you start to see it, one more thing I want to bring in, too, is that they always whoever it is men or a woman. They always try to pull you away from your Friends or your source of people that your community, because you solely relying on them. And when you do that, you lose total focus. You can't go to people and you can't say is this real? Is this me or because you're in word? It's got to be something with me.

00:10:08.000 It's making this happen. I'm not understanding this correctly. Maybe you know that other person for me and a woman is doing this whatever they're doing. They say they're going out and having a few cocktails with friends. You say they're doing things that they might be cheating on you. These are things that are extreme examples, but that can happen. And when that happens, when that happens, you can actually you know blame the influence going on.

00:10:43.000 You won't say, hey, there's something wrong here. They'll turn it on you and say, well, what are you talking about? I didn't do this. That's not what happened. But why don't you trust me? Or what's going on here? And so I wanted to bring that up as an example because when you're dealing with people like that, and again, I said before, that's truly evil. And that's person somebody trying to control you. And really, it's almost to the point of trauma based mind control because it is a trauma that you're going through, and you have to face it.

00:11:12.000 And when that happens, and you're not in a position to confront it, where you're getting weaker in the confrontation, and you're saying, and I think you mentioned too, Alison, that you're living and you can't live without them. So you're coming to the point where you don't want to live without them. So you're taking whatever they're giving out. And you are a great example you mentioned was that you could be a very successful person. You could be the one that could be successful.

00:11:39.000 You're the one that's maybe being the breadwinner family or is the one who is very successful in the career. With family life or running whatever the case may be, it could be business, it could be you know when I say running a family is the head of a family. But anyway, you don't realize that. And that's what they do. They really hide your positive attributes, make it make you a part of their plan, and their lack of self esteem and contempt. And so everything is projected on you.

00:12:10.000 And when you get to that point, that's the spiral they are to control. Yeah. I love that. You said that. You know, your experience and my experience are a little different and you know there was a lot of gas lighting in my relationship that in one of my relationships or a few. But one of the things that I had to start doing was writing things down because I got to the point where I really did think I was crazy and I wasn't sure why what was happening was happening.

00:12:47.000 And was I really saying those things or I would say something and then I would be told no, I never said that. And or what I said was a lie or you know all of those things that you just kind of covered a few minutes ago, Gerard. And so one of the things that I started doing, I mean, most everybody has a phone. And you know I just had an app in there that I could start documenting things that I said because you know each day I would write things down.

00:13:17.000 So that I would know for my aunt because I was isolated. And so for my own well-being, I realized that that was happening. I didn't really understand it all, but I knew it was happening, and I knew that something was taking me down. And so being able to go back and look at that information and know I'm not the one that laid or no, I did put that there or know I did say that.

00:13:48.000 You know, so I think that's one thing that we can do as individuals when those things are happening just to kind of help you keep your sense of so that you don't doubt yourself. And so you don't start to have a lower self confidence, self esteem, and know that you did say or do something that you really did. Because it's so easy to get sucked into that when you care about somebody.

00:14:18.000 You love me. You want to trust them. And you want to believe them. That's how we're wired. We want to do that. So that was very that was really a great way of doing it. It's a great illustration of what to do when you get to that point. And I think probably get to that point from experience and you said, okay, I need to do something because this doesn't make sense. And my relationship and respect of what was happening was the questioning of my mental health.

00:14:52.000 And when I was sitting there, and I had a point of reference, and I knew you know, I'm not perfect or anything, but what was being said and it blamed it was being projected my waves was not correct. But you're caught in that spy spiral, as I mentioned. And I wasn't doing that. But when you get to the point of finally realizing that, okay, this is either this is going to end badly one way or the other.

00:15:21.000 It really have to come to the point that you know from a Christian perspective, we go to the lord with this, and we try to give it to him, but example of what to do is perfect. And people who are in this position really have to start doing that because then you're truly see that what they're saying is wrong. And could it be lying? Manipulating, blaming, and once you get that understanding of it, you can really seek help yourself.

00:15:53.000 And that's another thing. You don't want to be in isolation. Because when you're in isolation, you're just you're at their mercy. And that's not true. It's not healthy at all. So I do understand that from my perspective, the ability to have your mental health question what I mean by that, it should blame. No, it's not me. It shouldn't be me. It's you. And here's why I think it's you. And I would just say, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

00:16:22.000 I just wanted to interject that because the experiences are different, but we all go through it. And this is for somebody who's doing that intentionally. This is what this podcast is scared for. It's a very, very unhealthy situation. So you and anybody within your family situation as well. But speaking about the ability of one person to really reject their evil art. Right.

00:16:51.000 Right. And you know I think as we talked about earlier in our message, our conversation that we were having prior to our podcast, we talked about the scripture Ephesians 6 12, and I don't know if you have that up, Gerard, if you don't, I can get it. I can do it. Okay.

00:17:15.000 I was just thinking how important it is for us to understand just to have a worldview understanding of that it's not necessarily just the person because they're trying to do that to you. It does come back to their experiences.

00:17:41.000 What they've been exposed to in their life, their own adverse childhood experiences, everything that they've experienced, and maybe they have many unprocessed emotions. But if you read that scripture okay, I'll start it. You want to just do 12? Or you can back up and start a little bit. Okay. Well, I'll just start with 11 and go forward from there.

00:18:06.000 We'll put on a full blown guard. So then you may be able to stand against the strategies of the devil. And because our struggle is not against blood and flush, but against the rulers, you can't see authorities against the world rulers. This darkness against the spiritual forces of wickedness. That's a great scripture to kind of bring in here because again, and we know what you're just saying is the backdrop of all human emotions.

00:18:36.000 Is that it's the memory of a generations. It's a very childhood experiences. So you can be the recipient of that. That's what we're talking here. But there's a reason for that. This is exactly what you described. And as we go forward with a learning interjection with doctor Perry's understanding of what really is a child what needs to happen, but it really is an adult. So many adults or so many people who have gone through reverse childhood experiences.

00:19:08.000 And we need to reflection people and need to hug. We need a true empathy and a love that we can be very strong to working through us. But you want to expound a bit on what you were saying with the visions, what I would expand it all on the scripture, what you feel, or? No, I just I wanted us to have that to understand that an individual that is doing that toward us.

00:19:36.000 Again, you just talked about again you know the adverse childhood experiences, the generational mirroring, all of those have probably been you know, they're clearly not by the design of God. And so those are one way that evil can come into our lives as children were exposed to this. This is what we see. This is what we do. This is what we believe. And even though that true belief, that is not a true belief.

00:20:05.000 That is a false belief, okay? And so to understand that there are forces out there and so I think that's where our love and empathy comes toward those that are actually doing that to us to understand to continue to go back to them as we were saying earlier and you very well said, love and empathy you know to continue to go back to them with love and empathy because.

00:20:35.000 Love covers and love heels. And so an empathy is just giving some understanding and comfort and so I just wanted us to have that clear understanding that you know it's not necessarily that person. Their flesh and their blood that is doing it. It is a spiritual war. And yeah. Absolutely.

00:21:01.000 And when you get into how, again, it's a generational thing. And you know one thing before we go into that a bit further is where each responsible for our own behavior. And we do understand that. So if you are in a relationship, when you have you see things that are coming from the other person, you can also look over with it too.

00:21:24.000 And as we've mentioned before, there might be triggers from your end that are triggering a response from you, but once you saw a whole goal here is to help you understand that these things can happen, but you can step back. When you're able to step back and doctor Perry, many others have mentioned, the only way to keep economies for you to become yourself, and I know we're getting it just to tap it off of what we're saying here. But that's how each of us is supposed to be help each other through that.

00:21:55.000 But when somebody else doesn't see that, that's the big difference. And that's what we can see from the scriptural point based on what we're working through and the things that we're working through individually to be the better you know, the best meeting that we can be. So we're staying within our mind we're in emotions, is to just understand that we're in a follow world. There is a spiritual dimension to it. And Jesus is defeated in this we've spoken about many times. And he's defeated the person. But we have a choice in life.

00:22:25.000 We can go choose who our God is. It's either having an idol from an evil perspective or we have our beautiful Jesus as our as our lord and savior. But there is a situation. But once we make the choice, they can't do anything. And so I'm bringing that back into this podcast because we are loose from them. They're bound or loose. So we can bring healing to relationship like this. We'll bring in this to your attention because many of you could be in this type of relationship.

00:22:57.000 And when you are like what Allison mentioned, what she did was an excellent way to start to get to the point, okay? Was I lied to you? Is this real? But when you record it, when you're writing, when you journal and how often you do it, you are able to see what's going on. Right. So I just I think that it's important as a subject, and we'll go into discussing earlier, we'll go into each of the major areas of reverse childhood experiences.

00:23:31.000 But gaslighting is a poem, really, of just emotional use. It's a form of control. It's a form of, in my opinion, just really dominating the other person in a very, very negative way. If you don't mind, I'm just going to interject a couple of things here with doctor Perry. That's okay. Doctor Perry, and I bring him up quite a bit, but I've been reading his book recently. And I just really enjoy the insight that he brings through his many years of experience.

00:24:02.000 And as we're learning, we are able to help bring these resources to you, it's important for me to try to eject some of the things here. We're dealing with these issues. Just a couple of quick notes here. So it starts with the birth child experiences. And when children start, this is doctor cook, is when children start to misbehave our initial impulses to punish and to provide them officers as poorly.

00:24:31.000 We tend to see children who are whine and demanding and aggressive and spoiled and indulged rather than recognizing that these qualities arise from unmet needs and unexplored potential. Not from having too much sailing too good. In order for a child to become kind, giving an empathetic needs to be treated that way. Punishment can create a model those qualities, although we do not we do need to set limits.

00:25:01.000 We want our children to behave well. We have to treat them all. That says it all. That says what happens in our society and our world today is that and this is not a blame game. This is just really truly what works. And what doesn't work is how the western culture and how culture and genital general from the worldview perspective try to limit children and it's really hurts the child whereas if you're embracing empathy and a child sees that, how can they not?

00:25:32.000 Embrace that and like you were saying, give it to their children. So that's the way that it's supposed to be, unfortunately, it's not. And all of these type of adverse childhood experiences can create havoc as you're an adult. Not having the emotions or unprotected emotions healed, but you're bringing them forward and casting them negative blood. Yeah. Totally agree. It's a very powerful thing to be able to realize what has happened in your life.

00:26:05.000 And to be able to connect the dots and where you are in your life as an adult and how those things are causing certain behaviors in your life, what is it they say, Gerard, like at the point of trauma in your life as a child, let's just say a child goes through a divorce, early in their life, and daddy is awful. He's not present. He says mean things to mom. And the child is present and hears all that sees all of that.

00:26:35.000 Then that child is traumatized period. And if that happens one time, then maybe mom and dad can come back and fix that for them and make them feel secure. But if it happens, you know, more and on a consistent basis than that child begins to feel completely inept. Unsafe doesn't really know what's happening. It's almost like the rug is being jerked out from underneath the child.

00:27:01.000 And so as she develops, she kind of stays in that place of trauma in her perspective, her mind, her thinking, everything. The way that she deals with things as she becomes an adult, if that never gets processed, she continues to operate out of those beliefs that were created in her at the time that her mom and dad who are flawed you know.

00:27:30.000 But did those things and didn't understand how to meet their child. Where she was and help her move forward in life. Because their problems were bigger than them. Sure. Exactly. And again, it's narrowing of the generations, which means that they haven't seen anything to help stop that. They've only mirroring what their previous generation of state both the husband and wife in this particular situation within it's what they see. And they don't know any of them.

00:27:59.000 They just don't know. So you know we just have to step back from one moment is that when the infant you know, I call zero to one years old, that's when the brain grows one to three that gross 90%, but for the two to one area where you have trauma at that point, that's really into the brain growth in a negative way.

00:28:29.000 So that on top of dealing with some of the things that you're talking about, when you're in that time frame, it can really do horrible damage to you because you just you can be pulled out of that and going to I'm just saying from a traumatic experience in that theory to one. And you could be pulled out going into another family, but that affects you so much longer, so much further into adulthood.

00:28:56.000 And it would be if you had a decent family from zero to one, and then those things that we're talking about happen, those mirroring of generational things of the use of any type of emotional or physical or any of that type of abuse, that can create such havoc when a child, but as they grow older, they're able to handle things better. And you know I'm kind of getting our subject here. But I just wanted to bring that back too as we're talking about reverse childhood experience. Yeah.

00:29:26.000 Thank you for doing that. I appreciate that. And I think everybody else will do. It helps us to understand better. Thank you. So when you think about gaslighting and how it affects us as a human being that we've talked about in a relationship, what are ways that we can try to I don't like the word confront, but to you know deal with that issue in a way that would be helpful to us as individuals and couples.

00:30:07.000 Well, from my perspective, I think that what would be very important is to try to bring somebody else in to the next year from your family or from your group of people who are supporting you. And again, if you don't have anything like that, you can go to a good counselor, somebody who deals specifically with your because that's a huge problem. And society today, the gaslighting aspect of it. And there are some really, really good counselors helping with that too.

00:30:38.000 You can go to the church, but I'm a little bit suspect with going to a particular church because trauma awareness in a church is in the process of growing, but they may not have the exact understanding of it. So I think you really need to go to somebody who really understands it. On a deeper level, and truly understand that that's real. Because a lot of people don't think that's real. They don't. So anyway, that's what I would suggest. There's a couple of things. How about you, Dan? Any suggestions?

00:31:07.000 Well, so to have somebody walking with you, like you're saying, and well, I think creating some healthy boundaries around your life, which you may have healthy boundaries, but when that stuff starts coming in at you, then maybe it's just like we talked about writing some things down so that you can get your mind back where it needs to be and understand that it's not you. Question if it's you, and if you've contributed to that, for sure, do some self assessment.

00:31:34.000 But also, I think that maybe you could offer a specific time frame for behavior change. I mean, just say, hey, you know, this isn't working. Can we take a year or 6 months or you know whatever and can we see?

00:31:55.000 You know, what changes in the relationship and at that point that you reach that time frame that you create, then go back and reevaluate, and I also think you have to come to a personal place in your life, again, I think we talked about this earlier. You had to discern whether or not on your own if I don't mean totally by yourself. I mean, counsel from others is a wonderful thing.

00:32:27.000 But God is our great counselor. And so whatever we hear from others, I always believe you know, listen to other people, I hear what they have to say, who are people that I have great respect for and know and I know they love the lord. But then I take that in a way before the truth of God. And I think that it's so important. So is it time for me to leave? Do I need to be out of this?

00:32:54.000 Is this going to take me down further to a point where I can no longer function emotionally? Or is it going to hurt my children more? Do I need to do something? Because this person is not. If there's no change over that period of time. So those are things that I think about. And of course, all of that filtered through understanding the love of God for you. That's a very great, great point.

00:33:25.000 You know, when you're in that situation, it's not easy. It's a very difficult thing because you're going through so many emotional strains within the relationship within yourself, doubting yourself, and that's why isolation is you have to get away from it. If you are in isolation, you don't have a true set or you don't have a true focus on what's really happening there because you're doubting yourself. That's what they want and what the doubt G or solve. And we'll just say, okay, I'm dependent on him or her.

00:33:55.000 And I know that it could be me, and but when you're when you're in that area and you're questioning yourself, it's a good time at that point. To try to bring somebody in. And like you were doing writing down or journaling however you were doing it, that is so important because that gives you the step to stay within yourself. And then see exactly what the situation is.

00:34:22.000 Then you can go to others and or you can confront the person in a healthy way because this is what was said. So for me, you can have it. If you don't write it down, you're going to have it in your mind that they can easily manipulate the information. So you know you're not you know staying within yourself saying, no, that's not true. Maybe it is. That's how we do it. So I think that when you get to the point that you're questioning yourself, you need guidance, help deliver the correct person.

00:34:53.000 Don't go to anybody that's part of the other lifestyle. Go to yours. And if you don't have anybody, a good counselor will be able to help that. And as you're saying, once you're at that point now, we are healthy enough to confront them. And then to understand that you can only do what you can do. You can't change the other person. If they're not willing to change, that's a telltale sign that they're just not going to change. And so you're not threatening.

00:35:20.000 You just have to remain healthy to be sometimes to leave and have a time frame on it, not to leave for good, but to put a time frame right to help them to come to realize that if they don't get help, there's nothing you can do. They do try to get help. That's when the relationship side come together in a healthy way. Anything unhealthy is not going to so I believe that when we do that, and if they're willing to work at their own near end, low self esteem, shame, whatever the case there, whatever unprocessed emotions they're going to do.

00:35:55.000 We can work with that. But if they're not going to do it, and it's difficult when you get to that point, because nobody wants to leave, you're just don't I shouldn't say nobody. I'm just saying it's very difficult to make that final decision. So you know we as humans, I think, one thing is to work out. But we have to do to help. Yeah. Yeah. I think you know it's so difficult. You built a life with somebody.

00:36:22.000 And it's hard to just totally separate yourself from it when you need to. But you know I do want to add that you know doing that through the love of God. I mean, my whole, my whole personal experience was through prayer. Praying and getting guidance. I mean, I would write things down and then I would pray. What do you want us to do you know? How do we do this? And I was on my own in that. And you know, like you said, if you try to if you try to change somebody, it's never going to work.

00:36:55.000 They're going to have to be willing to come forward. But everything that you just said and the things that we've talked about, those are the things that our ministry is all about. Helping others through that. And I don't know if would you mind if I read the scripture from 2 Corinthians one about the comforter? Sure.

00:37:24.000 This is 2 Corinthians one, three and four, blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the father of mercies and God of all comfort who comforts us in all of our affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort, which with which we ourselves are comforted by God. And that is that is why we're here.

00:37:54.000 I mean, we've had these experiences. We do understand them, and we've sought to learn more about it so that we can help people because our heart breaks. When we see people going through this, and they don't understand, and they want to know what to do. Oh, that's excellent. Thank you for bringing the scripture into. I love that. And as we've talked about prior to the podcast, was when you're going through it, it's the most difficult thing. You don't see you know.

00:38:25.000 We're taking it one step at a time. Because sometimes you don't truly see how you're going to get out of the situation. That's why you're just you know for us. We were blessed with the fact that we had an understanding that God was the only way out. Meaning that he was the only way that was going to get us through that. Because when you're going through it, it's dark. You're dealing with evil. And you know that you are coming.

00:38:55.000 So you don't look back in the fall and it's one step at a time. And bob will get you through it. And we are hands his hands and feet. And this is what really is the ministry is about as well, is that we have been through it. We understand that darkness that's there. We understand that we came through with the love of God. And overpriced, but it was a lot of hard work. It was a lot of seeking.

00:39:23.000 And as you mentioned, I love the way you mentioned that we have the heart and the empathy and the love. Based on what we've been through, based on the scripture just mentioned, that we want to help people. We understand the darkness, we understand what it's like to be to feel all alone, to feel confused, to have the blame on you, that you're confused in a way that you're not experiencing things that you just don't understand.

00:39:53.000 So our ministry is here to help you in that aspect. I think that's a great way to just show the love of God for us and through the people who he brings alongside you. And he will do that. That's his, that's what he loves. He loves his children and we all really when we think about it. Billion people plus in a bad planet. And each one of them is actually created by another believing part is up to us. It's a choice we have.

00:40:23.000 But we all belong with him. So we embrace what he has to offer when he's doing enough. And again, just one big thing that we really both Allison and I understood was that we were seeking with all our heart. And that's the love that you know comes through to us. Comfort us. And it works through us out to everybody else that wants to come into the ministry. Guidance for counsel, for small groups, but anybody.

00:40:53.000 Anybody who just wants to come in, we're going to walk alongside you. Love of Christ and the understanding. And again, it's okay to have the understanding of neuroscience, how the brain works, because that's all part of God's creation. But it is enhanced by talking. Totally agreed. Thank you so much. That's such a wonderful way to wrap up our message and just to let people know that we're here and our hearts are in it.

00:41:26.000 Because of what God has done for us. And with us. And he is with you. All the time, even if you don't see it or know it. And you know bring the right people into your life to help you. So. Yeah. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, yeah. I'm so grateful that we can do this. And be here today. Oh, absolutely. We want to thank you for joining us too.

00:41:55.000 And if you have any questions or you would like more information on certain things that we have talked about, some would love to have you reach out to us, and we'll map using a Gmail dot com. And for any additional, I guess, questions you may have or thoughts about what we can do to try to help you with your podcast or information of that nature that within the podcast that will help you with the questions you have. So please feel free to reach out to us. And we just thank you so much for being a part of us.

00:42:27.000 Here today, as we have another podcast, it's amazing that I love that we have for doing this about working through us and again. It's very real. That's the blessing of the lord. So we thank you very much. Any thought challenge Allison before we go? Just that you can find us on Spotify and Apple podcasts and iHeartRadio.

00:42:53.000 If you would like to listen to all of our podcasts and this series specifically on emotional abuse and also we have a website, musings, data work. Well, that's wonderful. Well, thank you again, everybody, for joining us. And Alison, thank you. It was wonderful to be here with you today and to talk about these things that are in our heart. Just thank the lord for everything. I want to say again one more time.

00:43:21.000 Thank you for joining us and have a wonderful blessing. Yes. God bless you. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye now. Bye everyone.