00:00:01.080 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Milmac Musings, where Allison Miller and Gerard MacLellan reveal the intersection between God and Science for Living Wholeheartedly. Hi everybody and welcome to Meal Mac Musings. This is our podcast from our ministry, Destined for Glory. And we're going to shift gears a little bit today, and we're going to talk, first of all, about suffering as human beings.

00:00:34.440 And so Gerard is going to start off by leading or reading a quote. A great quote here too. I think a look at suffering immunity will lead to the realization that trauma is perhaps the greatest mission field of the 21st century. That's an amazing quote. It's amazing. It's so true. And as we're doing the research and as we've you know lived through it and all of these things combined, we see so many people coming on board with this.

00:01:06.720 Again, it's the adverse childhood experiences, as we've mentioned in a number of podcasts. But it's important to understand that this is very real. This is something that finally people are getting a hold of. Now, as part of the ministry, we're doing things from a Christian perspective, where you also have the more of the worldly way they look and view these things. And again, Christian perspective brings Christ into it, which is the biggest difference because that's the place where the healing of the heart will be.

00:01:40.560 You know So any thoughts about that quote? Well, I just think it's really staggering. I mean, if you really look at what it's saying, like you think about all the mission fields that are out there, and they're saying that this is perhaps the greatest one. So I think we've talked about before that virtually every person, everyone, has experienced some form of trauma. They may not have experienced it over and over and over again, you know creating that complex trauma.

00:02:13.740 But it makes me very thankful that it's where we are. Right. Exactly. And that we can you know be a help. And also bringing Christ into it. You know I think that we can go to other doctors. We can go to psychiatrists, like you were saying, or psychologists.

00:02:38.580 But if they don't bring the aspect of Christ into it like some of us are doing, then you're missing a huge piece of the healing process because he is the healer. And so specifically for believers, for Christian people, we say you know we are very thankful to be operating in this area to walk with you in that.

00:03:10.620 Right. And as you were talking about bringing Christ into it, we also have to remember, too, that he has designed us, each and every one, as a unique person. And so we have in our mother's womb, he put us in us together, as Psalm 139 states. So he's given us each of our temperaments. So our temperaments, we can go into that in greater detail, and we will. But basically, it tells you you have your learned behavior.

00:03:42.480 Not so much a learned behavior, but you have your behavior as to what you like and dislike, and how your personality comes through, whether you're more of a person who is a loner or somebody who's outgoing and just loves to be with people. And that helps, too, with things about our career and other paths, which is really great, which is very helpful. Because if you're in a career that's not really part of your true temperament, that's terrible. But getting back to the temperaments, I let it slip about the learned environment.

00:04:13.200 And that's where God's design is brought to a point where it's at a point where it's not what he designed. And that's a terrible thing because we, as human beings, I'm looking at it from his eyes. Each of us are his unique masterpiece. And he has a specific design for each of us and a specific will for us to be and when we say will, it's not something that is going to be horrible for us.

00:04:45.840 It's the best thing that we could ever imagine. Oh, yeah. So when we look at that, we see how this can come into play, how it can be trauma, and the trauma itself is from a design that's not of God. It's evil. And so we're looking at it from that perspective. And I agree with you because our hearts are you know God put on our hearts this ministry for us to help people.

00:05:12.240 And a lot of times, as we've mentioned in the past and I know Rick Warren has mentioned this too, that when you are going through something that's specifically an issue or a problem or something devastating, you know as long as you're walking alongside God, He'll bring that together for the greater good. And I think that's just something that we can't forget as we go through it. So we went through something, and our heart is to help other people.

00:05:41.940 And we can't say that enough. At least I can't. No, we can't. Because when he puts something on your heart and you just follow him, I mean, there's nothing better. There's nothing better that can happen. 100%. It's like the best kind of thing that you can ever do. Right. Exactly. So when we look at this, I think just following up what you're saying, it's an amazing thing for us to be here, we're thankful that we are here to be able to move forward, to be a part of this mission field.

00:06:14.760 And you're not a statistic. You're an individual that just were trying to come in and walk alongside you to help you and get you through to that other side, as we mentioned. Absolutely. So I thought that was really powerful. Yeah. This is what we talked about, the gods whose heart before the anguish of this world and who entered the dungeons of this fallen world to make all things new. That was a terrific hope by Dr. Diana.

00:06:45.420 She went on to explain, and this is from the Christian perspective, too, not just Diane's, is that he came down from all glory. Yeah. I mean, his life was perfect. Perfect. His creation wasn't perfect. It's fallen. But he took the time to come into incarnate, and he went to the cross for us. And he knew that from before the beginning of time.

00:07:11.280 So when he saw at the beginning from the beginning of time, he knew all this was taking place, what was going to happen. He's omniscient. He understood it. But he looked at you, he looked at us, anybody who was born again. He saw that they accepted his beautiful sacrifice, and he said, "They're worth it." They are. Yeah And if it's just for one person, you would have done it. And you know that's what we have to look at. The cross is the great equalizer.

00:07:38.760 We all are broken, and we all live lives that are full of turmoil and abuse because of decisions we've made, because of not understanding how to get through the process of you're in a child and understanding how those defense mechanisms came forth. So as we look at his heart, how can we not look at the true God being with us? Yeah. Being with us and helping us and walking through all of this with us.

00:08:08.340 And he's a divine war king. He's a king of king. He is. And you know another thing is that you know he did. He came from heaven and he came into the dungeons of this world, but he also experienced the things that we've experienced. He has felt all of the things that we feel. So he understands so much about how he understands more than we understand what we've been through and our pain and our suffering.

00:08:39.600 And he actually suffered more than we did. Oh, yeah. And so he does understand it. And I think that's such a wonderful thing to really comprehend and understand of how deeply he loved that he was willing to go through that suffering for us. You know It's so hard to think of an analogy for us. But he's the creator of everything.

00:09:09.360 He is love. He is love. And he showed his love by doing what he did. And as you were mentioning, he suffered through all the emotions we do. But he was without sin. And that's an amazing thing. So he was risen because of it. And because of all that, we have eternal life. And to understand that it's not our works that our works are worth nothing. It is all that he did for us.

00:09:36.540 And so, as Romans 5: 17 says, "We can receive the gift of righteousness. We have received the gift of righteousness. Terrain is the king in life by Christ Jesus." And we're saying this because it's the true It's His righteousness. Exactly. Exactly. And it's the true God. It's His love. It's His creation. It's His wonderful dream. He puts dreams in our hearts.

00:10:07.320 And it's this wonderful dream for us to walk things out in his way in such a glorious, loving, kind way. So as we are part of the mission field, as we mentioned earlier, we're here to help people get out of their dungeons so they can help other people get out of their dungeons. So it's really all about discipling. And as children of God, we just embrace that. Yeah And we understand that.

00:10:35.940 And that's where our goal is to hopefully have you understand the true, loving, living God. Yeah So I find it just fascinating. Do you have anything you want to add before? No, that was perfect. Thanks. Oh, this is a great one. Do you want to read that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Our first call is not to places, be they chapels or dungeons, but to a person. Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:11:04.560 And you know as the P here is the capital P. It is. It is. And as we know, we are called to have him work through us. And he's the one who works through us. We can't do anything of our own. So as if you might find things sometimes in just even go to a grocery store, for example. You might find I've seen it too, and I've tried to do it. If there's a long line, we can go one or two ways. This is the choice we have.

00:11:32.580 We can go into the point of grumbling, or we can be the light and just joke and just talk to people because you'll never have a chance normally to talk to them. So I'm bringing all this. I know this is kind of a roundabout way to bring about a subject matter, but I just find it fascinating to understand his love for us. It's enormous. And I don't think that we can really understand it. And just the fact that what he said, our first call or what Diane wrote, our first call is to him.

00:12:05.160 And it's the only way that we're where we are. You know And so understanding his love for us and that is what it's about. It's his love for us. Right. Exactly. It's not how much I love him. Yes, we love him. We do. But he loved us so much. When you understand the depth of that love to the degree that we can in our humanness, it changes your life.

00:12:37.560 And as he came from, we talked about all glory into the dungeons of our hearts, of everybody's heart. And this was before we were still sinners, and yet he did what he did for us out of complete love. So I'm bringing more of this into this particular podcast because this is the true and living God, as I've mentioned.

00:13:01.860 And we want people to understand that to people who have gone through abuse and people who are going through abuse and people who are dealing with trauma or really complex trauma in so many different areas, you know whether sexual or physical and the other abuses as well. We understand that it's evil, intelligent evil that tries to destroy that love. But it's people and God hasn't shifted his plan. It's always been he's going to work through people.

00:13:30.420 And as his gift of his beautiful son, Jesus, we embrace Jesus. And because of that, our hearts are changed. And it's worked from the inside it works from the inside out. Yeah And that's the most it's his spirit that works through us to do it. And you can't make this up. You just can't. And as you go through this and work and try to do the ministry that you're doing and we're doing, you need that.

00:14:01.080 You can't do it by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's a total mystery, really. I mean, you can't just say, "Okay, do this, this, this, and this." It's all about going to him first and him working those things in and through you in, first, out, and through. Exactly. So it is a beautiful experience. It is. And it's for anyone. Right. Exactly. And one more thing, just quickly on that note, is it's about renewing our minds. And that's a big thing.

00:14:28.500 And we'll get into that further with neuroplasticity and the workshops and whatnot. But we just wanted to bring these things out to you as well. Yeah All right. I'll read this one. Do not fool yourselves into thinking you follow your Savior where others have failed to do so, all the while hiding dungeons in your own souls, whether it is in pride or pornography. That says a lot.

00:14:52.320 Yeah For me, one of the best things that happened to me was to really understand and you know through discovering mercy and other ministries and so forth, I was able to look at myself. And you need to do that. And you need to find out where you might have issues of weakness. And again, you bring it to him. But you cannot you have to do this for yourself because you're not going to be able to help other people if you're hiding things.

00:15:22.560 It's not that we're perfect. No. No. But go ahead. Well, not only are you not going to be able to help other people, you're not going to be free within yourself. You know It's so important. It's such a part of getting to that place where you can live wholeheartedly. Exactly. You have to the word intimacy into me.

00:15:53.100 You know So you know we go before you know our Heavenly Father and we talk with him and allow him to look into us and see the places in us, the dungeons that we're hiding from others so that he can help us address those and work through them. And it's through our faith that you know we're able to do that. And as we're bringing into the conversation, from my perspective, we're looking at the prefrontal cortex and then we look at the midbrain and limber.

00:16:23.880 We just see how God designed us, and it's an amazing thing, but we have to be healthy. It's not have to be. He wants us to bring everything to him. And when we open up, we bring things to the light. The enemy has no he can't do anything. It loses its power. He runs yeah because we bring it to the light. And that's what's so freeing. Yeah And it helps you to begin to have healthy interpersonal relationships and to live the wholehearted life, as you mentioned.

00:16:56.880 That's important. And the one thing we've mentioned a few times before is from a know from Jesus, I don't expect you I expect more imperfection from you than you do of yourself. And that's important. We're not here to be perfect. We're just here with relationship with God and each other and having him work through us, through our hearts that are healed. That are being healed. So that's just something I thought that was important. Yeah. I like it.

00:17:26.520 I mean, we had all these things, and we stay in that place. Oh, yeah. Boy, was that in that place? Yeah. That was a prison. Yeah. It is a prison. For decades. Literal emotional prison. Right. And within relationships that I had, I had a very good relationship with my wife who passed away. But I wasn't open the way I know now I could have been. Right. You know? But that was before you knew Christ. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

00:17:56.460 So the decades of all of this, I'm not looking back with regret because, thankfully, she was born again. But it's just a matter of understanding that I could have I could have if I had known, obviously, it would have been more freeing. And it would have been, from my perspective, a healthier relationship based on me being the best I can be. You know In Christ. Yeah Do you have anything else before we move on? No. Okay. All right. Do you want to read this or do you want me to? I'll read it. Okay. Go ahead.

00:18:26.940 Neutrality, and I would add silence, always helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. That is a very, very, very, very important piece of what we lead you into as being free from the silence because you know we were talking about learned behavior.

00:19:00.900 And learned behavior tells you, "You have to keep this a secret. Don't tell anyone. You know If you tell anyone, you're going to die. Or I'm going to kill someone that you care about or love. And the more, like we just said earlier, the more you keep that down in there, the more power the tormentor has over you.

00:19:24.480 But when you release that and you actually start I mean, even just writing it down and then saying it out loud and then sharing it with someone who is a safe person for you. You wouldn't want to tell the world about it, but you definitely want to be able to share it with a safe person. The power over you is there's a release.

00:19:50.700 It's the light comes in and darkness cannot exist where there is light. Exactly. And so you know there may be layers that you have to work through, but you will. Right. And it's the baby steps. Yeah It doesn't happen overnight. I'm just going to read this again because I want this to sink. Neutrality, and I would add silence, always helps the oppressor. Never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.

00:20:21.600 Just let that sink in for a minute. Yeah. That's just amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just to follow up with what you were saying, you know, it's the light. And when you start to do it, it just I can't I it's so freeing to begin the process too. And, you know, you'll have things that will, you know, present triggers and nightmares and other things. And we're not saying that in a bad way, but these are things that you can work through.

00:20:52.860 And I think one of the best things you said is working with a safe person. Yes. A safe person is key, whether it's a counselor, you know, a caregiver, or somebody that is walking alongside you, or you walking alongside them, too. It's important for, for everybody to be open, honest, upfront, and just to, to love each other, to have the empathy. Yeah. I mean, really, you want somebody that really has your best interests at heart, not what's going to make them look good, or that they're looking through a filter of their own situation.

00:21:26.220 And you know it has to be about you and what is good for you and helpful for you, and you know the confidentiality of that. I love how you said about the filter. And that's how people look in the church and other areas at people. Instead of looking inward, they're looking through their own filters at other people. And they're in an unhealthy place. Yeah And when they're in an unhealthy place, then that leads to unhealthy relationships too. So that's pretty cool. Well, that neutrality word.

00:21:55.740 I mean, that's not just being silenced. That's just knowing and not doing anything too. Good point. Yeah Excellent point. And you know life is too short. Yeah We're here in such a vapor. So really, let's embrace God and let's embrace his love. Very simple. His love for us. Okay. He is seeking searching to see justice.

00:22:25.680 Does this church satisfy this crib as hard? That's a question. This is really all a part of the mission field. Yes. You know As you look and I would say at this particular moment of time, no. I think it does not satisfy. Jesus had emotions. Yeah you know And when you look at I was just reading today about Lazarus yeah and how he was raised from the dead.

00:22:55.020 And it was just he wept. And he wept and that's an inner emotion that came through. So as you were saying earlier, God understands us. He became a man. He understands all the emotions. And you know he also understood what it would be like not to be in a healthy emotional state. And he just he was a perfect example of how to live in perfection.

00:23:20.880 But he gave us the example to understand that there's a better way instead of having the silence and things of that nature. But we as a church and this is what our ministry is about is to bring forth the understanding of God's ability to help people. And He wants us and there is a justice. God has justice. I mean, He is And it's different from you having your justice. Thankfully so. Yes. Oh my gosh.

00:23:50.460 Boy, I'd be in trouble. Me too. Oh my gosh. But thankfully, but what he wants to see is he wants to see his children set free. And because as we are marching forward, and we know we're living in some perilous times here. We were just talking about the war in Israel, and his you know, Israel is a great country, and you know, and they never start wars. It's always against them. But, you know, I only bring that up because the justice that God has is against evil.

00:24:22.620 He does not want us to not mean us. He wants us to go forward to combat it. It's very simple. We can because of Christ. And thankfully so. I'm not being overconfident. There's an unseen realm. There's evil there. However, the problem is evil has so many people's eyes covered, failed. But once you come to the freeing knowledge of Jesus and what He's done for us, and His love, and working in us, through us, it's a whole different ball game in a different and again, that doesn't make everything perfect.

00:24:52.740 Right. Remember how we were talking the other day about how when that happens, you know, I, I think Andrew said it, Andrew Womack said it perfectly. If you've been fat before, you're gonna be fat again. You know, after. It doesn't change. Yeah. So I don't know if you want to elaborate on that at all. No, you go ahead. Yeah. So when you're looking at even just there is a providential kindergart. Right. And as we're doing research and things of that nature, there's times when things could just drop in our lap about what we're talking about.

00:25:22.020 And we were talking about this in preparation for a show yesterday in Ezekiel. I think it's Ezekiel 36:26. Yeah And it's talking about he's going to replace a heart with a new heart. So it's a heart of stone. It's going to be replaced with a heart of flesh. And it's really his love working through us. So I just think that we are part of that movement. Right. And we're moving forward. And we're doing it through his love.

00:25:46.740 And again, we're not perfect, but we want to do the will of God and just to bring that light through from us to you and anybody who is walking alongside you. Our heart is to answer the cry of his heart. Right. Exactly. That's a great way. That should be up there on a plaque. I love that. It's really, really good. All right. We'll try another one. Do you want me to read it? I can read this one.

00:26:16.080 All the while, our God is seeking, searching for justice, and has called us to do the same through the prophet Isaiah. Learn to do good, seek justice, reprove the ruthless. That's from Isaiah 1:17. The ruthless? That must mean there are unjust people out there who trample on others no matter what they do. That's God's call for us. Yes.

00:26:45.360 And again, I know with intertextuality, that's the key. You might look at the Old Testament. Some people have put that aside, but Jesus is through that. And it brings us to the point where Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel, they were the prophets that foresaw Jesus coming. So having said all that, this is what we are here to do as a people, a body of Christ, the children of God, is to go out there and help people yeah and to help them seek the justice.

00:27:16.680 The justice is to live wholeheartedly, to get out from that prison and dungeon, and just to live in a way that again, your heart is to the point of wanting to please God out of love. Right. You know, it's not about, "Oh, if I don't please, I'm going to get a Thunderbolt." It's a matter of just the love. And he's such a great creative person. And he is a person. He's a creative being. He's love. He's the Word.

00:27:45.720 He's so many different things in so many different names of God. Yes, yes. You know But as we're talking about all this, we just want to keep stipulating the point that Jesus is love. And when you read the New Testament, it's a new covenant. It's a better covenant than what the Old Testament was. But it's all one story. Yeah It's all one story from beginning to revelation. It is woven through the entire book, the entire scriptures, all of it, Old Testament, New Testament.

00:28:17.340 If you don't read the Old Testament, you can't even really see where promises or prophecy was fulfilled in the New Testament. Exactly. So it's very interwoven, and I love that. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I just love that we can see him there. Oh, it's wonderful.

00:28:38.580 And one other thing to bring up as far as when we study our Bibles is that at the beginning, the Christian fathers, you know, the apostles and the writers of the letters and gospels, they had only the Hebrew Bible. Right. You know, they had it. I mean, it might have been Aramaic or whatever the case may be. But that's what they were dealing on. So they have scriptures within their letters and their epistles that really just go back there.

00:29:11.400 And so they take scripture. So one of the biggest things I know I'm kind of going a rabbit trail here, but there's a thing called the already but not yet. Yes. And you see that how they take it from scriptures because it is the aspired word of God that works with them. It's not like they're in a blank, you know, trance. You know God's prepared them to write this. So anyway, I went on that little rabbit trail.

00:29:35.400 I apologize, but it is true that we are here to overcome the people who are trampling on others and help those people be set free. Right. So I just find that passion. Helping the oppressed. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's what he does throughout history. Ash is to beauty. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Are you going to read that? Sure. The call to do justice is the call to be like God. In failing to do justice, we do not look like Christ in the world.

00:30:07.800 In not looking like Christ, we have failed to worship Him. Wow. That's powerful. Yeah. It really, really is. And worshipping God is not sometimes the denominational ways of worshiping. Going there once a week. I'm not saying that everybody does that, but a lot of people within the pews go there once a week, and they go back to the world system, the worldview. We're here to be the hands and feet of Christ.

00:30:37.140 And it goes back to Romans 12:1:2. We are here to renew our minds and to offer our bodies as sacrifices to the living God who's done so much for us. And if he wouldn't ask us to do it if we couldn't do it. Right. He wouldn't ask us to because we have the Spirit, the Holy Spirit in us, to do this. And I'm not trying to make this all a theological you know podcast, but there's so much to God and His love.

00:31:06.900 And we're dealing with these quotes that really brings Christ into it. And it's kind of eye-opening yeah to know that if we are not looking like Christ, we fail to worship Him. Yeah, like that is a form of worship. That is our worship is looking like Him and showing His love. And we were talking about this yesterday. You know How are people going to know who we are? Well, they know by the love that we have for one another.

00:31:35.040 And if we're not walking in that, then we're showing something different than who Christ is. Right. And His yoke is eating. Easy. Yeah And your burden is light, and it's the truth. And disclaimer, we don't always do it. But we certainly know and understand that it's our role for him out of his love. No, that's great. Thank you for bringing that up because we are certainly not perfect. Oh, my gosh.

00:32:02.160 We're not joking about you know we're joking in a way of understanding that we really have to be humble and understand that we're not perfect. And he doesn't expect us to be. And that's so wonderfully free. Thank goodness. Yeah, exactly. Praise God. Well, this has been fun. I like us reading these off and talking about these with everyone. Maybe we can do that again. Sure. Well, that was a lot of fun. It really was. Yeah And I did bring some of the scriptures into it, but it's important.

00:32:32.400 It's important to understand how this all works together. Again, science and the Bible intersect. That's really important to understand it. Well, God's the creator of everything, right? Right. Exactly. Exactly. How could it not intersect? I know. That's true. That's a great point too. Thank you. Anyway. Well, thank you for joining us. We do appreciate another time that you spent that you could be listening to other people. But we truly are thankful that you're listening to us. And thank you for taking the time.

00:33:00.000 And we just say, "God bless you and have a wonderful week." And if you want to reach out to us, Millmak Musings, at gmail.com. And anything, if there's any comments or anything you just want to write, that would be great. We'd love feedback. We'd love to have maybe questions or anything that we can help us to produce various podcasts in the future. Yeah. And also, we have a website for Destin for Glory if you would like to visit that.

00:33:30.480 And it is Destin for Glory Min, M-I-N, short for ministry.org. So destined for glory min.org. There's lots of good stuff, and there'll be more on there for you. Thank you. And this will be on there too. Once again, thank you, and have a wonderful week. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you for joining us. We hope that something we've shared today has touched your heart.

00:34:00.900 If you'd like to learn more, connect with us at DestinedorGloryMin.org.