00:00:01.020 Hello and welcome to MILMAC Musings, where Allison Miller and Gerard MacLellan reveal the intersection between God and science for living wholeheartedly. Now on to the podcast. Hi, everyone. My name is Gerard. This is Allison and welcome to MILMAC Musings. We were just preparing for the show, and we were discussing further information about physical abuse.

00:00:27.960 And before we start, we just want to make sure that you know for the people out there that our goal is to really help the Church to become better trauma informed. That's the key for pastors and ministers and the ministry themselves and the people involved with it because it's not really being handled very well. And it's something that for both of us and for some others as well, that it's just such a travesty that people within the church who need help aren't getting it.

00:01:00.780 And that is just so disturbing and frightening that so many people are going about being heard and they're continually being hurt in church. And we are just bringing all of these things to the forefront for you to understand that our heart is to bring this message to the church. So if you're out there in a church that is not embracing what you're going through or doesn't understand how to deal with it, you know please just write us and we'll be able to help you and we'll be able to be more of a gateway to help you with the different resources that we have.

00:01:38.520 So our message is to do that and that's what I wanted to start with. Do you want anything to add to that? Okay. So as we get into the startling statistics of physical abuse, I'm looking up in a monitor that's over here and physical abuse. We are really talking about myths here. So the first myth is physical abuse of children is rare. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

00:02:03.360 According to the Child Health Hotline, a case of abuse is reported every 10 seconds in the United States and more than 4.3 million children are involved in cases reported to the Child Protection Protection Services. Now, when they reported to the Protective Services, Child Protective Services, CBS, a lot of them really are so overwhelmed. I mean, we can hear how many cases there are.

00:02:31.320 And when you're dealing with the government entities, they tend to really not quite have the human resources available to really try to stay on top of this. And this is not against the people involved with this. God bless them. They are doing the best they can. Their hands are really tied because they can only take so many cases. And to be in that life of seeing these things over and over again, yet they're willing and their heart is willing to help these people.

00:03:02.220 We just say hats off to them, but we all need to help them as well. So that's just one statistic of the child abuse. And we're also going to physical abuse within adults and relationships for men and women and so forth. So as we move forward, I just want to say, you know when you're looking as it's not we're not talking here about parents who sometimes when the child is acting up, they get angry, which sometimes can happen because you can have a bad day yourself or there may be things you're dealing with that you need to have the unprocessed emotions brought out and taken care of.

00:03:43.500 And there's other times where it's a hectic day. So that type of thing is really not abuse, but the abuse comes about when you physically strike somebody and you continually do it. So you're not dealing with the issues within yourself, as I just mentioned. And you may have remorse. But unfortunately, because the window of tolerance, as we've stated many times within previous podcasts, is very high. When it's high, it doesn't take much to just go over the top with anger or whatever else you're dealing with.

00:04:14.340 So anyway, I just wanted to bring that forward for the child abuse. And if it's okay, which am I just elaborating a bit more on the Yeah, I'll talk about adult intimate partner abuse. And it is really the first thing I want to do is just read a definition if that's OK of what this is.

00:04:39.660 And this is from Diane Langberg and Tim Clinton who are very strong leaders in this and we have a lot of respect and appreciate their work. When someone uses physical abuse, contact intended to cause feelings of intimidation, injury or other physical suffering or bodily harm like hitting, burning, pushing, biting, shaking, restraining, shaking again, blocking the victim's way, beating with an object.

00:05:21.300 It is, in essence, physical power that is used to control, manipulate, or intimidate a person. So it can also include when a perpetrator uses his body to try to intimidate a person. But I wanted to tell you that the statistics for adults are just as they are for children. I think you said one every 10 seconds is abused.

00:05:52.440 For adults, on average, it's 20 people per minute in intimate partner relationships where physical violence takes place. That's basically one in four women and one in nine men, and it could be higher. We talked about that last week. It could be much higher in in both of those categories because people are embarrassed or they have shame.

00:06:22.620 They don't want to report it. But I wanted to share with you kind of a pattern that exists with adult physical violence. And I'm pretty sure it probably applies also with our children. I think it's mostly we don't really understand when we're hurting someone. It could be from generational patterns that we've talked about in the past that we've just seen that and it's learned behavior and that's what we do.

00:06:55.920 Or there is an aspect of evil involved in it too. But in an intimate partner violence situation, typically what happens is the person that is the batterer ends up, they get very angry and they get to the point where they can't control their anger. And that is the window of tolerance that Gerard was talking about and that we have on our website for you to look at.

00:07:27.180 But they they go above the level of being able to keep their emotions in check and then they end up battering. So whatever it is, however it is, whether it's physical intimidation with their body or whether it's actual physical touch in any way that brings harm to a person. So they do that.

00:07:52.620 And then what happens with them after they have finished what they're doing, they begin to have a sense of remorse and they come back to their partner and they talk about how sorry they are and they tell them that they love them and that they'll never do it again. They make the promises. They'll never do it again. And I'm sure they're well intended promises. They don't want to do it again. But unfortunately, because they haven't dealt with their emotions, they have many unprocessed emotions still.

00:08:24.480 They will come back and they will repeat the pattern again and it goes where they get angry, then they batter, and then they have the remorse again. And I know personally, I've experienced that many times in my life over and over. And the partner who is being battered wants to believe that this person is saying the truth to them. They want to believe that they're never going to do it again.

00:08:53.580 And so they give them the benefit of the doubt, but then it happens again. So I think it's it's very important for us just to understand the level of and today we're just talking about physical abuse. You know, we've talked about many different kinds. The level one child was every 10 seconds and 20 adults every minute.

00:09:23.580 That's that's three adults per second. Is that right? Is it my math right? Because it's absolutely heart wrenching. And that, yeah, that this is going on in our world, but it's going on behind closed doors all the time. And there are many children and many adults that are experiencing these issues.

00:09:48.840 And what would you say Gerard would would be the next step in helping the church to understand how to address this when you focus on like, OK, this is what is happening. What do we do with this? You know, as a church, we have to embrace that these things are happening behind closed doors. And it doesn't stop with just the people in the church itself, or what I mean by that is in the pews or in the organization they're in.

00:10:21.300 Sometimes this is power that's being abused by both the pastors and ministers. And it's a very difficult thing. But we really have to just bring it right to the church and say, this is wrong. And the other thing too, as we've heard the scripture, you know submit yourselves. This is from a woman who's being battered, you know submit yourselves to your husband. And the church itself has said, you know maybe if you were a better wife or if you submitted, truly submitted to your husband.

00:10:50.880 No. As we were talking last week, I think you mentioned, Allison, if you just touched somebody like that. Yes. And I think it was in the court, wasn't it? It was. So that's the truth. You are not supposed to do that. And there were boundaries with that. Unfortunately, for so many people, and I've been there too, is the hell you know is better than the hell you don't. So you're really trying to understand that you're really rationalizing why it's better to stay there, even though you're confused and you don't know who to trust.

00:11:22.080 And it's just terrible what the family dynamic is. It's for both the child and/or the parent that's being abused. And again, for statistically speaking, at the moment, it's obviously women who are more abused or, you know, how many percentage-wise than men. Again, the statistics may be different based on who's going to, from a man's perspective, report this. But again, this is just reported. Think of all the others that aren't reported.

00:11:51.660 So getting back to your question too, as a church, we need to be there and come alongside them. We need to show them resources. First of all, a place to get safe. You really, truly, as you pointed out, it's really great. It's human nature, I think, that we want to believe the other person because it's a genuine thought that the other person is truly remorseful. However, when the pattern continues, it's not going to change until they change. And in that case, you need to get out to go to a safe place.

00:12:22.680 So as a church, we have to make sure we embrace the truth of what's happening. So if somebody comes up to you is trying to explain this to you, have an attentive year to listen, and to help them, and to show them resources that are available. And there's plenty of great ministries out there and we'll list some of them on our website to help you get to a place of safety.

00:12:43.080 And then, you know, if indeed if you want to work it out, if the ability is there to work it out, both parties have to go to the point of being under the timeframe of taking your time, so I'm going back for taking your time to get the help needed, to understand and process your emotions. And if you can start in that, you know, in that place, I think that's a helpful way to at least begin the process.

00:13:13.980 In a church, we have to recognize that all of these things are happening. And we are the hands and feet of Christ, and we have to be there for people. And wonderful ministries are out there to do this. Again, as a church, we have to come alongside them and help them all. Yeah, yeah. And our whole point is to be a gateway for that. We are connected with other ministries. We have strategic partnerships.

00:13:40.920 We have people who are very, very good at what they do in helping. But we also want to help make you aware as the church that we need to do a better job, that we we know that we have failed and we want to bring to you resources, partnerships, different places for people to go because we know you're overwhelmed with this.

00:14:08.820 If the statistics are what they are and physical abuse only with children and with adults, we know there's no way that one place can take care of everything. We need we need a network. We need numerous people that have the heart to want to really step into this and help.

00:14:31.440 So that is our heart is to be able to do that and get you connected and also to be able just to make you aware through different opportunities that you would have to learn from us what we know as people who've experienced it and have come through to the other side and it's why our heart is what it is. But as Gerard said, the next step for anybody is always to have a place of safety and.

00:15:01.800 We just can't send someone back into the house that's burning down. It's not going to work. And you know I've heard it said that you cannot treat trauma while someone is in the midst of the trauma, like it's happening to them over and over. They need to be removed from it. And there is a lot of foresight in that.

00:15:28.740 When you are removed from what you are experiencing, you actually have different set of eyes to see. You're able to see what truly is because we've talked about this. You can't see what's going on when you're in the middle of it. You don't know what's happening to you. You don't know that you're walking deeper into more difficult situations. You don't know that by staying there, you're harming yourself or your children.

00:16:01.200 And I'm not saying I'm not saying end your relationship, as Gerard said, we need to understand how to address these things and address them in a healthy way and address them for all parties within the relationship that consists of the violence because it is a generational thing too.

00:16:29.100 The children, I think it's one in 15 children out of the out of the 20 people per minute that are experiencing intimate partnership violence, one in 15 children are witnessing it. So it's coming down the pike. It's coming down through the generations. And what happens is, is what we what we see, we learn and and things begin to happen in their own hearts and minds that begin to shatter their lives too.

00:17:05.100 Right. That's great. Couldn't put it any better. That's wonderful. You know, as we were talking about this, we have to understand, and this is something where we, as you just touched on a minute ago, as counselors and people coming alongside of other people as caregivers, you have to listen. You have to be an active listener. And that's what they want. They need somebody to be as a healthy person, that's what they need.

00:17:33.780 And they need to start to begin to trust people. But they do need to get out of that confusion they're in. And then as they're going through it, their confusion is just spiraling out of control. They're feeling unworthy. They're feeling the powerlessness. And they're just not quite sure why this is happening. And it's a terrible, terrible place to be. And as we move forward from that perspective, once they start to open up and just relate to you about the trauma, you just have to listen.

00:18:05.880 Just be there with them. And as we were talking about, Dr. Langberg says, which is perfect advice for counselors and people who are in the psychiatric and psychology fields is that you just have to let them talk. Talk, tears. And what's the other? Time. Time is the most important thing. Thank you. So time is the key as well. And that's what we're saying throughout our podcasts is that the fact that being with people, it takes time.

00:18:37.920 But they're not supposed to stay in that situation during that time. They have to be removed of it to be safe. And like you're saying, once you're removed from a situation, you don't have that confusion. You don't have the battering. You don't have the things that are creating your emotional, the emotional impacts of low self-esteem, not feeling worthy, not being able not feeling loved, yeah and not knowing how to love.

00:19:07.620 There are times when you're going through this, you're just like, "Why is this happening?" So again, it's a very difficult subject. Over the last number of weeks, we have even mentioned that some of the things we've talked about talking about have really played on our hearts. But that's okay because we can talk about it as a group. And when you get it out there, and as Dr. Langberg said, you first have to talk about it. And that's important to have that support group, as we've mentioned numerous times, because if you don't have that, you're going to be stuck in the same thing over and over again.

00:19:39.960 And the perpetrator will not get better. And the perpetrator, it could be from evilness as well. It's not going to it's not going to go away. So you really, really, as a church, we have to do the job of what Jesus has asked us to do. And that said, He modeled it perfectly when He came as a man that God did. And that is just to have love, the love of God. And that only comes from when you're dealing with the emotional issues of your own life, but He's always with us.

00:20:10.500 And that's the key. And we mention that frequently along with the details of how to help the church to deal with these things and for our ministries and the other ministries too. But it's really important to understand that what he has modeled for us is the fact that, again, it's the love and we're his hands and feet. And that's what we're called to do. That's what we're called to do.

00:20:36.060 I mean, you know, if you think about your own life and your own journey with Christ, and then I see mine this way, Jesus met me where I was in the deepest place of my brokenness and in my darkness. He met me there and he pulled me out and also people that met me there. And I think it's very important for us to understand that because Jesus met us there, each one of us and anybody that is a believer does understand that that he met us in those places and it's our call to meet others where they are.

00:21:10.560 And as Gerard was saying, listening, but also doing that with a sense of compassion and understanding, empathy, just listening to what they say and validating them will make all the difference in the world and how they view themselves for somebody to listen to them and hear what they're saying without a judgment at all without saying, oh, that couldn't have happened to you.

00:21:43.140 You know, I mean, these are mistakes we've made. And so we need to be there as as very empathetic people. And if you are a true believer and you are called to this work, you have that. Right. Thank you for inserting that. That was great. Again, empathy is a key word for the ministries and for our ministry as well.

00:22:06.900 And as we're continuing to talk talking about these terrible things that happen to people, our hearts are for you, and we're here to show you the resources that are available. And we can't mention that enough because it's so important that you understand that. And also, I'm going to say this again, as I mentioned a few times over the last few podcasts. Some of you out there who have been through this and continually through complex trauma because that's what it is.

00:22:38.700 It happens over and over and over again in some of the cases. You just really, truly have to understand that you may be angry with God. You may have disillusions about who God is, disillusioned by it. And you may think God is evil or you're just confused about God. And we'll keep bringing God into this because we want to show you the true love of God.

00:23:04.500 And it's through your ability to reach out to somebody who's listening, who's caring for you, who's loving you, who's right there with you, and you're starting to trust them. That's when we can bring alongside the fact that it really is God's love through us that really will be helping you. But again, we don't have to, you know, how can I say it? We're not trying to mention that as the end all be all.

00:23:31.200 It is the end all, but it's not something that we are trying to, how can I say this in a good way? We're trying to portray it as you may be angry with God, you may not understand God, but the true God is love, period, first and foremost. And that's why we as his children are, not only does he ask us to do this, but we get to do this.

00:23:58.140 And so when we can bring hope and we can bring the glimmer of hope or just anything to help a person to start to move forward, just a baby step, one baby step after another. But it's all from Jesus that we can do all this. And I just wanted to mention that. I hope I did a good job. Yeah, you did. I mean, I think you did a great job. I mean, we've all had at some point in our life distortive views of who God is.

00:24:29.640 And that comes from just watching other people or hearing things that people say that aren't true or even, you know, as children, I mean, we can look at authority figures as what God looks like to us because in essence, really, that's all we know. We're on this earth for when we're born, you know, the the job for our caregivers is to protect us and nurture us and guide us.

00:24:58.560 And if they're doing these things where one every 10 second child is physically abused, that's not love. And that's not from God. And so you can very easily draw a conclusion of, well, I mean, if that's God, I don't want that in my life. And that's just not who God is, like Gerard said. And, you know, there are so many ways that people have been misled about the true, true Lord and Savior that we have.

00:25:36.180 But he is about love. And when you get to know him yourself, you will see that he is about love and healing. That's great. And it's really, again, we're saying this because we walked the walk and we're very fortunate to have had the ability to grab his hand and as he pulled us out of what we were pretty dark times that we were in. And I'm going to circle back to the church again.

00:26:06.540 So many people are hurt within the church of being hurt. So they're bringing their hurt to the church for some type of hope, or at least something to be a part, to have people maybe believe them or whatever, and it's not happening. Unfortunately, a lot of people within the peers are so caught up in their own lives and they're not really it was my four or no more. So they're looking at their family, not really looking outside of how they can help. So again, with the hands and feet of Christ.

00:26:35.280 But the other thing that really is unfortunate in so many churches is the fact that they're not quite understanding that we're all equal at the foot of the cross. We're all the same. And thank God for that because Jesus took it all for us. And he's just amazing. It's just you know one new man, as he says. Everybody's together. And fortunately for a lot of churches out there, and again, these are churches that think the building is the church and not really understanding that it's outside that we are called to be.

00:27:07.860 We're called to be the light of the world. And it's him through us, but we're called to go. And unfortunately, that's not happening as much as it should be. And we have a long journey ahead, but we're excited to be looking forward to speaking with churches, to be speaking in workshops, and to speaking wherever we can. And as I've said a number of times, from the mountains, that it doesn't have to be this way of what people are going through with trauma or complex trauma.

00:27:37.740 There is hope, and it's the love of Christ that would help them through it all. But it takes us to come alongside you or anybody you know or anybody else out there. You may be somebody watching a podcast or going to the resources that we have listed, but we are here to help. And that's our goal. And boy, are we going to stick to that? Yes, we are. So thank you. You know Just for being a part of this. We just love it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for being with us today.

00:28:08.880 Thank you for the opportunity to do what we're doing because without you, we can't do that. So if you have questions like Gerard said, or if you're going through something, or if you are a church leader, a ministry leader who would like to have some guidance and some help in navigating this, we're more than happy to connect with you. You can contact us at our email address, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

00:28:40.620 Yes, please do. And just one last thought. I know I keep saying this, but praise God. There are over 800 billion people on the planet. And we're all each God's masterpiece. So you are a miracle. And we want to thank you for being a part of this podcast and allowing us to move forward with what we feel is very important information for the body of Christ and for everybody else out there who needs this. So we thank you.

00:29:10.800 Yes, thank you. Have a great day. Blessings.